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'78 LGT 145 Starting problems


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#1 stadlgi OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 07:41 PM

Hey All,
Did a Google Search to find some secrets to the inner workings of Ford/Jacobsen
starting systems and found this site. Joined and here I am.

Have 2 tractors, the older of the 2 is a '66 - 67 Jake Chief 1200 all original except
the seat pedestal which is homemade and is comfortable, exhaust is stacked as well.
This little beastie works very well and is used for mainly pushing or pulling things.

The second is a '78 LGT 145 with the hydrostatic tranny. This tractor worked well
shoving snow around this winter. Took off all the winter stuff; blade, wheel weights,
chains. Attached the 42" deck (pretty chewed up from years of cutting but still works).
Cut grass 2 weeks ago and haven't been able to get it started since no matter what I
do. Does anyone have an idea - I'm running out? Tried jump starting - that used to
work with the old battery, the new one I got last fall has a dead cell - won't hold a
charge. Reinstalled the old battery which has a residual charge of 10.28 volts.
Tried jump starting again, nothing. Set up a jumper & alternate start switch - nada.
Ran a jumper around the solenoid, still no go. Had the starter checked at Autozone (raised eyebrows as it does not fit their computer choices). Starter checked out.
Now what? The grass is getting real tall and I don't relish the idea of hauling the old
Jake back 20 miles and installing its deck (can't adjust the front) but may have to.
What am I over looking?:confuse:

#2 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 07:49 PM

If you hook a jumper directly from the positive side of the battery to the starter does it turn over?

#3 Bill56 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 08:14 PM

If the starter itself, is good, then it could be one of the safety switches??

#4 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 10:17 PM

When you're jumping around the solenoid, are you going directly to the battery + terminal? This may sound like a stupid question, but does the starter spin when it's not installed in the tractor? Next stupid question...is the engine seized?

#5 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 03:40 AM

Check your grounds. On my LGT 165, the battery is connected to frame, with another ground from frame to front right engine mount.
FordWiringDiagram2.jpg

Here is a wiring diagram I color coded to aid in tracing wires. I had to replace the PTO switch as nothing would come thru the safety side of it. If you are jumping around seloniod, hook ground to an engine mount. There are so many things that could cause a no start situation.

#6 poncho62 ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 05:46 AM

So, you are saying it wont crank over even when you put power straight to the starter?

Goes it click or anything when you do that?...Are you putting a ground cable straight on the starter too?

Either the starter is bad, you are not grounding it or the engine is seized......If the engine was seized, it will click and try to turn it.

#7 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 06:27 AM

Check your grounds.... If you are jumping around seloniod, hook ground to an engine mount...


...Are you putting a ground cable straight on the starter too...


Great call guys! I can't believe I forgot that...Duh! That one has bitten me a few times too.
  • KennyP said thank you

#8 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 06:39 AM

That's one of the first things to check. If jumpers are hooked to starter and engine(for ground) and it still won't turn over, something is locked up. The starter may have a bad bushing, putting it in a bind. They will work off engine, but won't turn it over.

Edited by KennyP, May 13, 2011 - 06:40 AM.
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#9 stadlgi OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 10:18 AM

At first the starter turned extremely slowly, then clicked, then nothing. It has been
in the nothing stage for some time. I did a direct jump from my truck to the starter
positive and thought the starter was going to fly off the engine block and come
after me. It spins. The starter is mounted directly to the engine block and serves
to ground itself that way. I cleaned the points of contact it has at the block.

Next on the agenda is to examine the contacts between the ammeter (hasn't worked
for past 5 years) and the ignition switch. [saw that mentioned in an earlier thread]

The neutral safety switch could be bad as you have to hold the shifter in N up against
the side of the guide. It may have gone out, don't know.

Thanks for all the input.:confuse:

#10 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 10:43 AM

Start eliminating items, it is easy to temporarily bypass the neutral safety switch. What is even easier is to check to see if the ignition switch is sending a signal to the starter solenoid to crank the starter over. If it isn't sending voltage to the solenoid then I would eliminate the safety switch temporarily and then check for voltage. Would actually be better to use a continuity tester and check to see if you have continuity between the B terminal and the S terminal when the key is turned to the start position.

If it has continuity at the switch and no voltage at the solenoid then it is more then likely the safety switch. I don't know what the wiring schematic looks like for the tractor and safety switches are all different.
  • stadlgi said thank you

#11 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 04:49 PM

I posted a wiring diagram that is for these tractors. The safetys are the neutral and the PTO. On my tractor, the PTO safety wouldn't let anything thru. Had to change it. If the starter is turning over with direct power(jump), it should be turning the motor over. I'll bet you have a bad safety(neutral or PTO) or a bad connection somewhere. Could be the solenoid. If it has a seat switch, you have to sit in it to make that safety work.

Edited by KennyP, May 13, 2011 - 04:51 PM.
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  • stadlgi said thank you

#12 stadlgi OFFLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2011 - 09:48 PM

Ran a jumper & starter turns, the engine wouldn't start, but I flooded it. Pulled the plug to see if there was spark, there was.
The main key switch is still a No Go. Checked the continuity between the solenoid S terminal and all the terminals on the
key switch looking for the B terminal (checked all 5). No continuity between any of them. Did find a blown fuse on the
hour meter circuit and replaced that. I'm at checking all the safeties and from what I've seen, there are maybe 2 - the
neutral and PTO. A new twist, I got a new battery and installed that, tested that by turning on the headlights, the other
day with the old battery in place, the lights lit. With the new, they don't, BUT by hitting the light switch, the starter clicked.
So somewhere along the line a connection is in question. But where to look, the light thing is new. So correct me if I'm off
base; I'm going to check the connections especially the grounds again and for a cross somewhere. Next the ignition switch
looks pretty messed up, the neutral safety is not resp0nding to anything. So there you are in this continuing saga. Meanwhile
the grass is taller, thicker and the rains aren't helping. Had to borrow my industrial pusher weed eater back from my mom's
place 20 miles from here. More studying schematics as well. Any shortcuts?

#13 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 15, 2011 - 04:47 AM

On the 165 I have, I had to wiggle the shifter when in neutral while trying to start to find where the safety switch would work. That turned out to be a little forward of where neutral is marked. I think the 145 is the same as the 165, if so the neutral switch is right under the plastic cover. Take that off and you can see if you are getting power thru it. If no power comes to it, then the PTO safety isn't working. This is in the switch, the two wires that connect by themselves. This is where I had a problem. I had to change out that PTO switch and everything worked fine.
P.S. After looking over the diagram again, the power to the coil also goes thru the PTO switch. If you are still having problems later today, I'll see if I can find anything else that might be causing it.

Edited by KennyP, May 15, 2011 - 04:52 AM.

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