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Starting My Bolens HT23 Repower

ruggerini diesel air-cooled diesel bolens large frame rd200 kohler k582

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#1 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2016 - 12:32 AM

Okay, so I've started working on my Bolens HT23 Repower... planning to put a Ruggerini RD200 2 cylinder air-cooled diesel in it. 

 

Ruggerini FRT.jpg

 

This is the same size block as the Ruggerini RD180 used in the Ariens GT18, though the Ariens runs the drive shaft off the fan side of the engine (like a Cub Cadet 102, etc.). It is very similar to the Lombardini air-cooled diesels uses in the AC 920 and the Simplicity 7790.  The engine gets about 18-21 hp depending on the application.

 

 

 

Bolens HT23 New Treads.jpg IMG_20140105_130513_112.jpg

 

I posted a short video and some information about the engine in January 2015... you can find the link here:

 

http://gardentractor...diesel-running/

 

The biggest challenge I face right now is to get an adapter to fit the short 1:5 tapered shaft on the PTO side of the Ruggerini.  The shaft is only about 1 1/4 inches long, and tapers to within 1/8 inch of the face of the crankcase. There is a threaded hole of approx. 12mm in the shaft that can be used to hold the adapter on.

 

Lombardini Tapered Shafat.JPG

 

I found a person on eBay that makes tapered adapters so people can use genset engines on other items.  His price was WAY reasonable, and as soon as I can define how to hook up the drive shaft to the adapter, I'll have him do the work for me.

 

Drive shafts with U-joints need to have a little room to slide in and out as the shaft turns, especially if one shaft is offset from the other..  Bolens does this by fixing the engine side of the shaft with a key way and set screws, and only uses a keyway on the pump input shaft so it can move.  I don't care for this design as it causes wear on the pump shaft, which is way expensive to replace or repair.

 

I have a chain coupler that will fit the Ruggerini, although it would probably have enough flex to it, it probably isn't a good idea to use it with a drive shaft with U-joints.

 

What I'm thinking of doing now is to have an adapter made with a center pilot hole and a 4 hole bolt circle and put a stub shaft on to it.  I've even ordered a Kohler stub shaft... it is 1" diameter with a 1/4 inch key way.

 

Assuming I can get it to clear the hydro pedal cross shaft, I would run the engine side of the drive shaft loose so it can slide on the shaft (I'll have to put a bushing on the shaft to adapt the 1" stub shaft to the 1 1/*' U joint.  I'll put a zerk fitting in the yoke to keep it lubed.  The pump side of the shaft will be fixed so it can't slide.

 

The disadvantages I see with this is that this will make the already short 19" drive line about 4 inches shorter...I'm concerned that this may be a problem, since the engine output and the pump input are not inline with each other... there's about a 1 1/2" difference with the engine shaft being higher than the pump...

 

I'm not familiar with setting up a driveline, etc.  does anyone see any problems with this setup? Input appreciated.

 

I've attached a drawing of the PTO side of the engine that gives the shaft dimensions...

 

Lombardini_Ruggerini J609B Taper Dimensions.jpg

 

Smitty


Edited by Utah Smitty, June 02, 2016 - 12:35 AM.

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#2 glgrumpy OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2016 - 06:11 AM

My Bolens has a floating mount on biscuits and is lower than the frame top. Drops for shaft align. Won't your engine be running backwards running off pto side? Plus might be easier to make adapter for flywheel side?
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#3 1oldbuzz OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2016 - 07:26 AM

Ok my opinion

I see nothing wrong with the difference in height from engine to pump shaft

angles such as this are common especially in automotive

cutting the shaft to 15 inch or so should also be ok

 

I have a HT18 and unless someone did a engine swap (don't think so) the engine

output shaft sits about 2 inches higher than the pump shaft the drive shaft is at quite an angle

 

Not sure how to comment on which end to fix in place

my HT18 is a 73 and the pump shaft showed no wear at all

I would think balance and harmonics as well as rotating mass will come into play here

must be a reason the engine pto side uses a fixed mounting


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#4 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2016 - 08:17 AM

My Bolens has a floating mount on biscuits and is lower than the frame top. Drops for shaft align. Won't your engine be running backwards running off pto side? Plus might be easier to make adapter for flywheel side?


The reason for the need for some room for movement in the driveline is because with the crankshaft and pump shaft at different heights, the driveshaft length changes slightly as it rotates. Cushioned motor mounts alone in effect would force the shaft to move the mass of the engine back and forth.

The diesel crank centerline sits about 3/4" lower than the Kohler 582, so that will help with the shaft angle. But it's also about 1 1/2" longer--that and the need for an adapter requires the shaft to be shorter. Hopefully I can just have the keyed U-joint yoke slide on the stub shaft.

The diesel is set up like the gas air-cooled engines, with the flywheel/fan at the front. Making an adapter off the flywheel (front) side would be a lot easier, but the driveline comes off the rear of the engine, hence the challenge I'm facing.

Regards,

Smitty

#5 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2016 - 08:24 AM

Ok my opinion
I see nothing wrong with the difference in height from engine to pump shaft
angles such as this are common especially in automotive
cutting the shaft to 15 inch or so should also be ok
 
I have a HT18 and unless someone did a engine swap (don't think so) the engine
output shaft sits about 2 inches higher than the pump shaft the drive shaft is at quite an angle
 
Not sure how to comment on which end to fix in place
my HT18 is a 73 and the pump shaft showed no wear at all
I would think balance and harmonics as well as rotating mass will come into play here
must be a reason the engine pto side uses a fixed mounting


Thanks... I've seen some GT engine swaps where they used a regular square or splined slip yoke at the engine end. But perhaps the reason for leaving the yoke loose on the pump shaft is to avoid any linear thrust forces on the pump shaft--anyone know if this is the case?

Regards,

Smitty

#6 1oldbuzz OFFLINE  

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Posted June 03, 2016 - 06:58 AM

I would agree that with a rubber/cushioned mount the shaft will need to move.

 

My HT18 the engine is solid mount

 when I did a repower on my 990 the shaft was and still is rusted tight to

the pump shaft shaft is also fixed to the engine PTO nothing has failed

 

A U joint does need to have some angle for it to work properly

my thoughts on the rubber mounted engines is the was for the purpose

to try and eliminate vibration from the tractor

 

I had a bolens a while back with the rubber mounts and that machine

shook more than anything I have with a solid mounted engine

 

I'm thinking you could also change out the pump for one than turns opposite of what you have

Or use a BGB with the correct rotation and drive the pump with a belt this would allow you

to drive off the flywheel side


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#7 michael.kitko OFFLINE  

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Posted June 03, 2016 - 11:06 AM

Watching. I love those little diesels. I wish I could find one myself.

Mike "Squirrelly" Kitko
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#8 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2016 - 12:04 AM

I would agree that with a rubber/cushioned mount the shaft will need to move.

 

My HT18 the engine is solid mount

 when I did a repower on my 990 the shaft was and still is rusted tight to

the pump shaft shaft is also fixed to the engine PTO nothing has failed

 

A U joint does need to have some angle for it to work properly

my thoughts on the rubber mounted engines is the was for the purpose

to try and eliminate vibration from the tractor

 

I had a bolens a while back with the rubber mounts and that machine

shook more than anything I have with a solid mounted engine

 

I'm thinking you could also change out the pump for one than turns opposite of what you have

Or use a BGB with the correct rotation and drive the pump with a belt this would allow you

to drive off the flywheel side

Thanks for the info on your HT18.  I looked more carefully at my tractor tonight, including crawling underneath it to look at the rear drive shaft... both shafts have set screws holding them in place--so, it's possible that I don't need a slip yoke on the driveline...yay!!

 

However, I won't be able to mount the engine with the fan to the rear, use a hydro pump with different rotation because the hydraulic pump for the front end loader is mounted to the front PTO shaft, and would be turning in the wrong direction.  Also, if I put the engine in with the fan to the rear, I would still need to make an adapter for the PTO to power the pump, so I'm not gaining anything by changing it around.

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Smitty



#9 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2016 - 12:28 AM

So I took a picture of the driveline's front U-joint that shows it's position in relationship to the engine firewall (on right side), and to the cross shaft for the hydro pedal (vertical shaft in picture).

 

HT23 Drive Shaft Frt U_Joint.jpg

 

The Ruggerini is about 2" longer than the Kohler, so that leaves the engine almost touching the cross shaft.  I may have to do what I saw another person do on a LF diesel repower, and cut the shaft to leave room for the crank adapter, and put a pillow block on the end to support it...

 

The mounting bolts for the engine actually screw into the bottom of the oil pan.  If I don't raise the engine, the crank will be about 3/4" closer to the hydro pedal shaft than with the current K582... another reason to shorten the shaft and support the cut end with a bearing.

 

I've included some pictures that show the Ruggerini when I was considering using it to repower an Ariens GT19 with a bad KT18 Engine. 

 

This picture shows the front of the engine with the fan shroud removed.  Note the holes for mounting an output shaft here... I will need to make an adapter that allows me to use the stub shaft from the fan side of the Kohler K582.

 

Rugerini RD200 Front_Less Shroud.jpg

 

This picture shows the rear output shaft of the Ruggerini Crank... quite short... in some ways that's good as the adapter will be a minimum length--the challenge will be to ensure nothing interferes with it... i.e. the pedal cross shaft.

 

Ruggerini RD200 CRANK OUTPUT TAPER.jpg

 

These other pictures give some other views of the Ruggerini as I was testing it's fit in my Ariens GT19... It fit, but no clearance for the oil filter, and possible crankshaft interference with the steering gear... Ariens actually used an air-cooled diesel on the GT18, with the fan side to the rear of the tractor.  Air was drawn in around the console...there were filters installed there to keep the grass, dust, etc. out of the cooling fins. However, they stretched the frame 4" to get everything to fit right.

 

Ruggerini RD200 Trial Fit in Ariens GT19 CROPPED.jpg Ruggerini RD200 Trial Fit in Ariens GT19.jpg

 

Anyway, as you can see, I still have a ways to go.  The first thing I need to do now is to get the tractor out of my front yard and in to an area where I can work on it... I can't tie up my garage since the only available space now is right where the hydraulic lift is, and we use that a lot for brakes, oil changes, etc.... so, with my wife's approval (somewhat grudgingly), I'll be working on it in the carport...

 

Smitty


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#10 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted June 26, 2016 - 11:06 AM

So, I came across a Mitsubishi KE75 engine for sale on our local classifieds.

 

Mits KE75 LHRR.jpg

 

I'm considering using it as, (I hope), parts are still available for it.  But I haven't been able to find much information on the 'Net regarding parts, engine reliability, or even dimensional drawings. The engine is a ways away from me, so I don't want to make the drive to look at it before I have more information.

 

Has anyone used this engine?  It was used on some of the Iseki/Bolens tractors in the late 1970's, possibly on others as well--Satohs, or Mitsi grey marked machines. This engine came from a Bolens/Iseki--a G174, I believe.  He also has a radiator out of a Honda Gold Wing that goes with it, though I don't know if that will be big enough, or fit in my HT23...

 

Any info on parts availability, reliability, etc.?

 

Thanks,

 

Smitty


Edited by Utah Smitty, June 26, 2016 - 11:14 AM.


#11 ClassicBolens ONLINE  

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Posted June 26, 2016 - 02:58 PM

The Mitsubishi KE70 and KE75 2 cylinder diesel engines are good workhorses. There are some pros and cons to consider.

 

Pros - strong, a lot of power, tons of torque, compact size, very commonly used engines in the 70's and early 80's - Satoh, Bolens - Iseki and many others. Very reliable overall.

 

Cons - Noisy. They can be loud. Throw a handful of bolts into a metal bucket and shake it like hell, that will give you a reference point. They are older series engines and with that comes some risk of obsolescence.

 

Parts are fairly easy to get,  I can help with parts if you have trouble elsewhere. Parts can be pricey if you have to get into one for an overhaul or the injection pump. Not really any worse than Kubota or Deere though. The most common parts I sell for these are oil, fuel and air filters and the occasional valve cover gasket, head gasket and water pump. 

 

As for the radiator, it may take a little trial and error to find a good fit. There are likely many options that could be used, but will likely take a bit of work. You may want to check with the guys that own the HDT1000 tractors and see if you can get some good photos and measurements. 


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#12 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted June 26, 2016 - 07:54 PM

Smitty, I have the smaller displacement, same block, KE 70 in an Iseki/Bolens G152.

You cannot buy an exhaust manifold or muffler for a two cylinder Mitsubishi, they are NLA. You have to find used, or build one in the case of the muffler.

I have not read of anything else being unavailable.

They are tough as nails, and nothing beats it for fuel economy. Needs glow plug usage to start unless it is 80 degrees outside.

What do you want for measurements?
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#13 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted June 27, 2016 - 12:00 AM

Smitty, I have the smaller displacement, same block, KE 70 in an Iseki/Bolens G152.
You cannot buy an exhaust manifold or muffler for a two cylinder Mitsubishi, they are NLA. You have to find used, or build one in the case of the muffler.
I have not read of anything else being unavailable.
They are tough as nails, and nothing beats it for fuel economy. Needs glow plug usage to start unless it is 80 degrees outside.
What do you want for measurements?


Well, if you have a .pdf of the operator's, parts and repair manuals, that would be wonderful. But a line drawing from one of the manuals showing overall height, width, length, and dimensions of major features would be helpful.

If that isn't available, then height, width, flywheel housing width, length and crankshaft height will give me a pretty good idea of its "envelope".

Thanks,

Smitty


Edited by Utah Smitty, June 27, 2016 - 12:31 PM.


#14 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted June 27, 2016 - 03:47 AM

Get them tonight.
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ruggerini, diesel, air-cooled diesel, bolens, large frame, rd200, kohler k582

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