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Simplicity Conquest - smoke from mower deck

simplicity conquest pulley hub mower

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#1 purdum OFFLINE  

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Posted May 31, 2016 - 07:04 AM

Simplicity Conquest, purchased new 2013, 50" mower deck. model 2691126. Smoke coming from the mower deck. Found that the hub (Part # 1713158SM) between the two pulleys (Part # 1713098SM) on the left side of the deck had two raised square guide blocks (is that what they are called?) which were worn away. The blocks fit into square notches on both the upper and lower pulley so that as the belt turned the upper pulley it transferred the rotation to the lower pulley and the second belt. I have now gone through three hubs and have replaced the lower pulley once because the square notch had been reamed out. This just seems like a really bad design. Is the problem that I don't have the top bolt holding this assembly together tight enough (obviously if this bolt were not tight, the blocks would quickly wear away, but I had it torqued down as tight as I could get it), or is the hub made of a soft metal? Fortunately the Simplicity dealer/parts shop is only a mile away, and they usually have several replacement hubs in stock - so it must be a common problem. Is one solution to take the two pulleys and hub and have someone weld them together?  Any ideas?



#2 massey driver OFFLINE  

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Posted May 31, 2016 - 07:38 AM

Sounds like a poor design to me if it keeps doing it. There's always a way to modify it. It's your mower so maybe you could weld the pulleys together and see what happens.If that doesn't work then you can always go back to the oem way. I haven't seen one myself so not sure what to really say.


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#3 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted May 31, 2016 - 08:29 AM

Some pics would help. It could be a poor design. It also could be that something is not aligning correctly. I've seen problems where the idler pulley, 8 inches away was causing  alignment problems that made the spindle pulley and belt wearout fast. Realigning the idler solved the problem. Maybe you have a similar problem too. Good Luck, Rick


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#4 purdum OFFLINE  

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Posted May 31, 2016 - 08:00 PM

I'll try to post some pics tomorrow.  I talked to a tech at the Simplicity dealership today and he said it was possible I had pulleys and hub fastened down too tightly, causing the bearings in the spindle to bind so there was added resistance to spinning the lower pulley.  I put in a new hub, tightened it down enough so that it looked like everything was snug and turning freely.  Fired up the engine, engaged the mower blades, and shut it down after about five seconds when I saw the lower pulley stop turning (I didn't reinstall the cover so I could see what was happening).  Back to square one. I did ask the Simplicity dealer if this was a common problem and he said no - in fact, in the past year, they have only sold 4 hub units, and 3 of them have been to me in the past two weeks. 


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#5 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted May 31, 2016 - 08:07 PM

What made it stop turning?



#6 purdum OFFLINE  

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Posted May 31, 2016 - 09:15 PM

The  square blocks on the bottom of the hub were beveled off so they no longer engaged the square cutouts in the pulley.



#7 bb1980 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2016 - 11:30 AM

Looks like a bad design. The spindle shaft has a star pattern like some other makers use, but the star engages a spacer/hub. Then the hub only has two small ears that engage two little slots on the pulley. If the nut isn't tight enough or either the hub or pulley has a worn edge on the two slots, then they will not engage and could spin against each other. Have you replaced both the pulley and spacer hub with new ones?

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Edited by bb1980, June 01, 2016 - 11:31 AM.

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#8 bb1980 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2016 - 11:35 AM

You could possibly assemble parts 3, 4, 5, and 6 together with a bolt and some washers tightly and have someone weld those together as one piece. Then remove the bolt and washers and reinstall the now one piece assembly.

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Edited by bb1980, June 01, 2016 - 11:43 AM.

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#9 purdum OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2016 - 09:13 PM

Thanks for all the advice.  I talked to the Simplicity dealer tech about it and he said I might be tightening it down too much, which would cause the bearings in the spindle to seize.  I replaced the hub, tightened everything down to what I thought was a reasonable degree, and tried again, only to have  the raised square blocks shear off in about 15 seconds.  Have ordered two new pulleys and a new hub to start afresh.  If that doesn't work, the entire mower deck goes in to the Simplicity dealer and I'll let them figure it out. 



#10 purdum OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2016 - 09:17 PM

The welding idea is a possibility.  The Simplicity dealer could do that.  They tell, me, however, that they very rarely encounter the problem I'm having, so I'd like to try and solve the underlying cause.



#11 ACmowerguy OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2016 - 02:03 PM

They had used that design since the mid 1990's.  I have had two of those 50" decks but never encountered that problem. I disagree that you can "lock" the bearings by over tightening the center nut because this only applies pressure to the center race. The worst that could happen is the nut strip off the threads or break the top of the shaft off.  I've attached some pics of one I finished refurbishing this spring. The only way to put those bearings in a bind is to have a force acting against the outer race, opposite of the force against the inner race, such as if the arbor housing halves were too tight. Even that is not a likely problem because on my deck I had to add shim washers between the spacer and bearings because otherwise when tightened and assembled the bearings and shaft had 1/8" of vertical play. To me it sounds like the hub is slipping out of alignment at the time of assembly, which can happen easily if the blade and arbor shaft are not supported during assembly. Did you use the Belleville washers and assemble them with the "dome" facing upward? The nut on top of the spindle should be torqued at 50 to70 ft-lb of torque per the manual. 

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Edited by ACmowerguy, June 05, 2016 - 02:03 PM.

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#12 massey driver OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2016 - 05:23 PM

just by looking at all the pics that have been posted has me to wondering. Is there suppossed to be a spacer between the 2 bearings inside the mowers spindle. If there's no spacer is there a snap ring under the upper bearing.There must be something to keep the upper and lower bearing from letting the shaft slide up or down.If there's supposed to be a snap right under the upper bearing if It's moved out of place I can see where your problem is.Or else I'am not seeing the whole picture.in which case I could very well be wrong


Edited by massey driver, June 05, 2016 - 05:27 PM.


#13 ACmowerguy OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2016 - 05:47 PM

 

 

just by looking at all the pics that have been posted has me to wondering. Is there suppossed to be a spacer between the 2 bearings inside the mowers spindle. If there's no spacer is there a snap ring under the upper bearing.There must be something to keep the upper and lower bearing from letting the shaft slide up or down.If there's supposed to be a snap right under the upper bearing if It's moved out of place I can see where your problem is.Or else I'am not seeing the whole picture.in which case I could very well be wrong

 

Sorry for the disorganized nature of my pics. They don't really tell the whole story but they were all I had on the computer and I no longer have one of these decks disassembled. I have reattached the pic and circled the spacer. As far as I can tell, the original poster had not disassembled his arbor housing but had just removed the pulleys, When removing the pulleys and nut there is nothing to hold the arbor shaft from dropping downward through the deck. If its not held in place then a pulley or spacer alignment problem could occur fairly easily. Yes there is a spacer between the bearings. On my deck, the spacer was not tall enough and the upper and lower housings had some wear so I had to add shims for the bearings to fit snugly and take up the slack. If Purdum didn't disassemble the housing then his spacer should be in place.

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#14 massey driver OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2016 - 07:24 PM

Sorry for the disorganized nature of my pics. They don't really tell the whole story but they were all I had on the computer and I no longer have one of these decks disassembled. I have reattached the pic and circled the spacer. As far as I can tell, the original poster had not disassembled his arbor housing but had just removed the pulleys, When removing the pulleys and nut there is nothing to hold the arbor shaft from dropping downward through the deck. If its not held in place then a pulley or spacer alignment problem could occur fairly easily. Yes there is a spacer between the bearings. On my deck, the spacer was not tall enough and the upper and lower housings had some wear so I had to add shims for the bearings to fit snugly and take up the slack. If Purdum didn't disassemble the housing then his spacer should be in place.

Thanks I figured there must be something to keep the bearings from being pushed together when the nut was tightened.Now just a thought here I Wonder if when he replaced the pulleys if maybe the shaft slide out and the spacer moved over while the shaft was out and no longer keeping the bearings from pushing together, in the center.Something sure doesn't seem quite right..







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