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Got a sparkless 2012


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#1 middleageddeere OFFLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2011 - 06:36 PM

Ok so already kinda posted this one but have yet to solve the problem and I am getting a little ticked about it. :wallbanging: I have no spark on my Simplicity 2012. So here is my pic of points (?) and it only has one wire to it. I have been told it only needs one and the other two are both kill wires. Looking to confirm that. Also, wondering where this wire is supposed to go. I am pretty sure this is where my problems lies but can't follow it without removing the engine. I am guessing it goes to the magneto...which could be bad. Any help would be appreciated.

simple electric problem.jpg

#2 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2011 - 06:41 PM

More then likely the second wire is going to the ignition switch which is a grounding ignition switch. It will ground out the points/magneto so it quits firing.

Can you happen to see the back of your ignition switch? How many terminals does it have? There will likely be a terminal marked with an M for magneto.
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#3 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2011 - 08:27 PM

Just to catch people up on what you've tried, here is a link to the other thread starting where you discovered you lost spark.
http://gardentractor...age2/#post61695

The last suggestion I saw was to verify point gap.

One more potential that I hadn't thought of before. Are you really positive that the points aren't grounding out somewhere? If you have a continuity checker, disconnect the wire and condenser and test from ground to that terminal. With points closed: dead short, point open: no continuity If either situation isn't there, post those results.
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#4 middleageddeere OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 05:41 AM

Just to catch people up on what you've tried, here is a link to the other thread starting where you discovered you lost spark.
http://gardentractor...age2/#post61695

If you have a continuity checker, disconnect the wire and condenser and test from ground to that terminal. With points closed: dead short, point open: no continuity If either situation isn't there, post those results.


Wow, that is either Japanese or way over my head...Lol I do not have a continuity checker. Where and what is a condenser? And where does the one wire that is still connected go? Don't get me wrong I understand engines pretty well (done a few overhauls and engine swaps and everything in between) but these small engines and these points/condensers in particular are somewhat unfamiliar.

#5 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 05:47 AM

Wow, that is either Japanese or way over my head...Lol I do not have a continuity checker. Where and what is a condenser? And where does the one wire that is still connected go? Don't get me wrong I understand engines pretty well (done a few overhauls and engine swaps and everything in between) but these small engines and these points/condensers in particular are somewhat unfamiliar.


The condenser is the little can either in the points box or it will be real close to it. Looks like yours is in the points box. I suggested taking the magneto wire off the ignition switch because if the switch is bad it will ground out that wire which means no spark. The points can ground out inside the points box if the strap is to close to anything or the proper washers are not used on the terminal that passes through the bottom of the points box.

Check your points gap first. Bruce Dorsi posted a great way to do it but I don't have time to find the post. But you can check the points gap with feeler gauges at their furthest point when rotating the engine by hand and then check the gap.
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#6 middleageddeere OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 05:58 AM

Very cool thanks guys. I will start and update as I go. I am feeling like a little kid who is trying to learn physics right now...

#7 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 07:18 AM

As for continuity checkers, I have several of the cheap meter found here: https://shop.harborf...lt?q=Multimeter

If you've never used one before, it will take some getting used to. For this particular application, you could just use one of those self powered test lights that come in some of those cheapy toolkits. It may be easier.

The wire that is attached to the top of your points, disconnect. The condenser is the little metal can next to your points, disconnect it too. Then slowly turn the engine by hand until the points are closed. At this point you should have continuity (low numbers on digital meter/light on with test light). If you do not have continuity, file the points and try it again.

Once you have continuity, roll the engine until the points are open as far as they will. Check point gap. Then check for continuity again. You should have no light/ a high number on the digital meter (often, they will just show a 1 in the left hand column and no other numbers). If there is continuity, you have a short in the points. This can often be a bad fiber washer or insulator on the shaft they ride on, or somehow the insulated section is rubbing against the mounting surface.

Kinda hard to explain this in print... Hope this is clearer. Good luck.

Edited by MH81, May 12, 2011 - 03:18 PM.

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#8 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 02:32 PM

I had a multimeter for the longest time but it never worked right and always blew fuses. I finally broke down and bought another one of the clamp style meters so I could check the amperage load on the air compressor. The nice thing is it has the continuity tester which is audible and makes it nice, easy and fast to tell if something is right or wrong. I think I paid around $60 for it. Since I have gotten it I have used it at least 10 times which is more then my other one got used.
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#9 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 10:20 PM

As a rule, multimeters only blow fuses when they are on continuity and you hit a live wire or you exceed the 10 amp rating on current settings.

In an unrelated turn of events, I have a pile of junk meters that just "Stopped Working" myself... can't be operator error. :laughingteeth:
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#10 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 08:36 AM

A selfpowered test light comes in handy when you check continuity , I like them a little better then a multi meter when setting points because it's easier for me to watch the light and also I think it puts a little more load on the points compaired to the meter . Pretty cheap and handy tool .

https://www.napaonli..._0006394640&An=
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#11 middleageddeere OFFLINE  

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Posted May 16, 2011 - 04:26 PM

Ok so I had a few minutes to mess with the old girl tonight and I just played with the one wire that is connect to the points and all of a sudden I got spark! So, tried to start it and it fired about every other time (on average). So, I am guessing I just need to replace that wire right? If so, does anyone know if I have to take the whole engine out to do so?

#12 middleageddeere OFFLINE  

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Posted May 26, 2011 - 08:09 PM

Well, I found that one wire to the magneto was the problem. To fix it requires removing the engine and pulling the flywheel...so I put in a coil instead runs pretty good now. Mega-spark!

#13 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted May 26, 2011 - 08:15 PM

Ok so I had a few minutes to mess with the old girl tonight and I just played with the one wire that is connect to the points and all of a sudden I got spark! So, tried to start it and it fired about every other time (on average). So, I am guessing I just need to replace that wire right? If so, does anyone know if I have to take the whole engine out to do so?


Well, I found that one wire to the magneto was the problem. To fix it requires removing the engine and pulling the flywheel...so I put in a coil instead runs pretty good now. Mega-spark!


Sorry I missed your update, yeah the engine has to come out. I don't think the flywheel has to come off tho, the mag is above the flywheel on mine.
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#14 middleageddeere OFFLINE  

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Posted May 26, 2011 - 08:43 PM

Oh ok. Hey does anyone have a pic of the high low lever? Mine seems to be missing and I can't even figure out where it is supposed to be. Or if someone could even explain where it is or how it works that would be cool.

#15 tractormike OFFLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2011 - 05:54 AM

Congrats on getting it up and running! As to the high-low lever, the high-low range setup ws a 2 speed option that replaced the single pulley on the input shaft of the tranny. It was a kind of planetary drive set up. Most all of those tractors had the decal on the right front of the seat pan even if it was never equiped with the optional high-low setup.
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