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Fuel level in fuel filter with picture


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#1 TimW OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 03:49 PM

I posted earlier about a problem with a Kohler M20 sputtering out.  I have wondered about these filters and their level before.  I know they are never full, but if you look in the pic, this one only has a small amount in the bottom.  I cant see anyway possible something could be getting fuel if both inlet and outlet are exposed.  Am I right on this?  Is there anyway that this motor could possibly run right with the filter looking like this?    Also, there is plenty of gas in the tank.  

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#2 grattone ONLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 04:09 PM

Is this a gravity feed system or with a fuel pump?

Have you ever disconnected the oulet side going to the carb. to see if fuel flows through the line and filter ok? 


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#3 Mtypython ONLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 04:20 PM

Should be about half full, like grattone says, check flow at filter
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#4 Auburn David OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 04:42 PM

I have had trash in the tank stop up the flow at the outlet..



#5 TimW OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 05:01 PM

It is a pump fed on a GT.  I am going to pull the tank off and redo the lines, if that don't fix it, I will replace the pump, then if that don't work, I will shoot it.


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#6 ClassicBolens OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 05:24 PM

Fuel pump.

#7 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 06:20 PM

The fuel filter on my Craftsman garden tractor always looked just like that.  I tried everything I could think of to get it to fill.  I finally just gave up, but my tractor was running just fine.


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#8 glgrumpy OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 06:29 PM

Was told they do not fill completely and smaller amount OK.  Wonder if once level comes up to over the holes, then it can't compress the air any more and it just holds back the level then?? What think?  Maybe mount more vertical to clear fill?


Edited by glgrumpy, May 25, 2016 - 06:29 PM.


#9 TimW OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 07:07 PM

I may cut one of these filters apart to see if there is a pick up tube extending inside the element.  If not, I see no way it could draw fuel unless the outlet or engine side of the filter was below the level of the visible fuel.  I can see how it trickles in the tank or inlet side, but not how it could draw any air on the engine side for any length of time.



#10 grattone ONLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 07:28 PM

I have a 7010 Simplicity (gravity) that was doing the same thing you are having. I reworked the fuel line  but that didn't help best I can recall rebuilding the carb. ( up draft pucker) took care of that. As long as the tank is above the carb. inlet, the line could go to the ground and back up and it should work. You have a fuel pump but could you try it by bypassing the fuel pump???



#11 dualresponse1731 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 07:28 PM

I have often looked at these filters myself and wondered how they work at all with so much air in it. As a data point, mine all look the same as yours, if not worse, and they always magically work. A way to think about it is like this... Let's say there is a bunch of trapped air. Okay? So what? It gets pulled into the line and the engine sucks for a second. If there is a good seal on everything, the air that got sucked out of the filter (into the engine)can only be replaced by pure fuel from the input line from the gas tank, so it should theoretically fill with more fuel- but it doesn't- why? because it has found a balance point.

 

I am not familiar with these engines, so I will throw out general thoughts.

 

I think the key to your conundrum is in the "works for about 15 minutes(I think it was)and then goes lean needing choke". Something works cold, but then warms up and then doesn't work so well. A constant problem would not work well for the 15 minutes cold, and then go south. It would be a problem from the start.

 

I would systematically work through the system, starting at the tank. Cleaning out the input, looking for cracks in the tank output. replacing the lines, putting filter in more vertical position, then if needed, replacing fuel pump, then replacing line from fuel pump to carb (although on my lg)t, as long as the carb was lower than the tank- it worked, regardless of fuel pump. I would replace all of this, because it is cheap and easy.(well maybe the fuel pump isn't cheap- but fix it to eliminate it as a problem)

 

A am also assuming the routing is tank- line- filter- line- pump- line- carb. It might help to post some pics of your setup to make sure someone hasn't rerouted it inadvertently over the life of the engine compared to other similar engines.

 

As for the carb, Is it tight on the engine? is it letting in air somehow when it is warm (or is the fuel pump losing pressure/leaking into engine when warm). I had an old kohler carb once. I think it had more than 8-9 hundred hours though... but I don' t know. At any rate, the butterfly shaft had so much use, it had slop, which was letting in unmetered air past the butterfly shaft and into the carb from the side. In short- the carb was trashed. It never metered right- but it was a constant problem, so it never metered right from startup. A new carb  solved it all. I could see a worn seal on a carb somewhere letting in air as it warmed up and became flexible. Perhaps a rebuild in order?

 

So think in terms of what goes bad when things get warm after 15 minutes. I would keep it systematic, but not rule even rule out an electrical gremlin which gets funky when warm, but I would focus on carb first after fuel line( Including pump ) basics confirmed..


Edited by dualresponse1731, May 25, 2016 - 08:24 PM.

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#12 Leonard VanCamp OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 07:29 PM

It is probably ok. If you think about it the filter media is probably wicking up the fuel, like putting a towel only half way into a bucket of water. Plus you are only using a minute amount of fuel, if you throttle the engine up you will see that the fuel will flow faster through the filter.
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#13 daytime dave OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 07:34 PM

The fuel filter on my Craftsman garden tractor always looked just like that.  I tried everything I could think of to get it to fill.  I finally just gave up, but my tractor was running just fine.

 

I noticed the same thing on my GT5000  It runs fine though.



#14 John Arsenault OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 08:59 PM

There is enough fuel in your float bowl alone to keep it running for a short time. All that needs to be is just enough fuel flow to keep the bowl from going empty and thats nothing more then a trickle. These little fuel pumps only provide that trickle needed when the gas tank is not mounted in a position where gravity assist.

 

You only have to worry about fuel flow if your engine is shutting down during high rpm operation where fuel consumption is at its most. If you mount the filter in a vertical position you will see that they do fill.  



#15 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 09:19 PM

I have an Onan doing the opposite. After I work it for about 15 minutes it starts flooding. I assume it is the float. Maybe yours is hanging up?






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