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#1 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 18, 2016 - 06:00 PM

On my Jacobsen Chief 800, I have been eliminating  items on the tractor that could be causing electrical problems. There is a rebuilt G/S, new regulator, points, coil and battery. Wiring seems to check out. All wires were returned to original position, although something is not right.

 

The 800 starts and runs well. The generator seems to not be quite engaged. I get higher voltage at lower speed than high.

 

So. my question one is why would the ammeter register -7 or so with key on and remain at -5 during running. ?

And,two,

 

why do the points cause the same ammeter drop when closed with key on ?  I have read that the coil is powered in this configuration but should not be... losing charge through the closed points.

 

I thought that this point in my testing would be good to get outside advice. M    Thanks


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#2 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted May 18, 2016 - 06:39 PM

It sounds like something is not wired correctly. Download the engine manual from our Manuals Section and read the troubleshooting guide. The tractor manual should give you the wiring diagram. Check it with a continuity tester. I suspect that the regulator is not wired properly. Sometimes they need to be grounded and sometimes they need to be isolated from the chassis. Take pics and post them. Ask questions as you go. We are all in this together. Good Luck, Rick

#3 grattone ONLINE  

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Posted May 18, 2016 - 08:32 PM

When did the problem start, new starter/generator, battery or what ?

 

I have a Panzer with S/G and every time I disconnect the battery for long I have to polarize the S/G.

 

Try starting the engine ( FIRST disconnect the field terminal )   while its running short the field terminal on the S/G ( tap it to Ground)              Watch the amp gauge, if it charges + While shorted,  the next thing would be to stop the engine and with the field terminal still disconnected tap the jumper to Battery + TAP don't hold it on Battery + (if the regulator is close by and easy to reach use the battery terminal on it). I like a voltage gauge more than an amp meter, with an amp meter you need a load on the system plus some rpm's to show a charge current.

 

If the key is on and the points are closed you will see a drop.

Hope this helps Gratton



#4 glgrumpy OFFLINE  

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Posted May 18, 2016 - 08:53 PM

Sounds like polarization as mentioned, OR, ammeter just hooked up backwards?? Did you have those wires off? You sure battery cables on right posts? Maybe the two main wires on the Gen are switched backwards? 



#5 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted May 19, 2016 - 02:55 AM

Do you have a schematic?
Who replaced the regulator?
Are you sure it's the correct reg/wired correctly?

#6 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 19, 2016 - 11:19 AM

OK. Great comments. I will begin to use the advice . 

 

I do have an original "copy" of the manual and wiring diagram and have analyzed it very carefully. The wiring has not been altered but then I am human !

 

 

This 800 has been in the family since the 70's... and this past winter, while snowplowing, the engine stumbled and finally cut out. First breakdown ever. 

 

I have replaced the ignition switch with an NOS unit, and connected it as was the old one. ( which was fine in retrospect !)

 

The regulator must be incorrectly connected (It does have to be grounded , and is ) but it is a brain wracking thing. Something basic is not right but wiring diagram says it is.

 

The fact that it runs well is great, at least. But the energized coil with the points open and key on is not right, of course. 

 

 

Since I have kept this 800 serviced all these years, I am the one who has replaced all the parts and adjusted things mechanically. The electrics is definitely where I am a failure. Can't quite put my finger on those electrons. Reminds me of computer problems. I need an electron wrench. So that is where this GT community comes into play.

 

Will repost after doing the testing suggested above.    Thank you all.  M      Pictures soon.



#7 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 19, 2016 - 11:33 AM

I noticed I did make an error in my first post. The correct issue is that the ammeter drop, with key on, occurs with points OPEN and goes to 0 with points closed. I stated this correctly in the last post.

 

This is just a symptom of the problem but seems so wrong that it must mean something to someone who has a grasp of this.  M



#8 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 19, 2016 - 01:30 PM

2zjgh2o.jpg



#9 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 19, 2016 - 01:33 PM

The wiring diagram above is what I have had for years. The VR thing is odd but probably an artist mistake.

 

Note: I have never had the safety switch.

 

I have connected lights with no issues.



#10 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 19, 2016 - 01:45 PM

This is the original VR before removing to replace with a new one. The new one has identical connection lettering, four wire connections, etc

 

For the hell of it , I replaced the original VR (with cleaned up points) to see if there is a difference  :  NOPE30xevsw.jpg



#11 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 20, 2016 - 12:09 PM

GRATTONE :  Quick question… When my S/G rebuild guy gave me instructions to polarize the S/G, he said to jumper from the batt + to the A terminal on the S/G.  You are saying jump to the F.  Since I assume we are all talking about a negative ground system, did I jump and polarize the S/G incorrectly ?  This could mean my S/G is reversed ?

 

Thanks M



#12 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 23, 2016 - 11:50 AM

Hi.Did the S/G test with f terminal off at S/G and jumper from terminal to ground. No ammeter movement.  Don't know if it means anything, but a multimeter reading , during this test, from the f terminal to ground showed .75 .      Probably did not matter but I tried the polarizing with a jumper .  No change.

 

Taking S/G back to rebuilder for a check.

 

Since engine started with f terminal on S/G disconnected, the ground from S/G to tractor body is fine.  M



#13 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 10:58 AM

I returned the S/G and voltage regulator to the rebuilder (reputable. I have several old parts redone here). The news is that the S/G is perfect and the VR is junk. So much for the foreign  VR industry.  My rebuilder has access to a VR he assures me will work, so that is the next step.

 

A few more dollars, but a whole lot of relief. I have been convinced the wiring is correct, and yet blaming myself for any number of things possibly overlooked. We shall see.

 

Will follow up on this when S/G/VR refitted.

 

Thanks, M



#14 Dayton_King OFFLINE  

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Posted May 25, 2016 - 04:32 PM

Some voltage regulators are adjustable and require to be adjusted to charge correctly

#15 mpeck3 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 19, 2016 - 10:37 AM

OK HI !  Here is the latest.  After an exhaustive check of wiring and connections, I determined that the VR and or the SG was not right. I returned to the original electrical shop ( Kinne electric ) and left them for them to just check. Turns out the VR I had, although looking correct, was not. They ordered me one that was guaranteed to work. Then, they found some of the new field coils they had replaced were not up to par. (I am no expert here and I don't know the effect of this).

 

Well, Kinne Electric redid the SG under warranty. Can't thank them enough for the pro-active, positive, and honest business practice.

 

I am waiting for some touch-up Jacobsen orange paint to fully cure, and then will install and test.

 

I suppose this result would have been obvious to an electrically-minded person… but for me it is more experience.

 

This waiting time for the fix has been well used to clean up and paint various other body parts.

 

 

I also managed to repair a loose valve seat on a Briggs and Stratton 190CC engine. Rule one, I have learned, is always test for compression if a no-start issue arrises randomly. Removing the head, cleaning, and re-torquing the head bolts is worth the trouble every few years !    M

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