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Motor mount mess on 314 - Gahhhh!!


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#16 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2011 - 05:34 AM

:thumbs:

my DIY engine hoist (Don't laugh too hard!) .

I was thinking that this guy was pretty smart to get the job done with what he had to work with !

#17 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2011 - 09:40 AM

Thanks. I could have used the 2320 loader bucket but the possibility of damaging something stopped me. I spent a couple of hours figuring it out and buiding it. The hoist worked well actually. The lifting hook on the engine is placed so that it lifts out almost flat, making it easy to prevent damaging the fuel pump etc. I figure I can fold the hoist up against the wall when not in use.

#18 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2011 - 01:36 PM

:thumbs:
I was thinking that this guy was pretty smart to get the job done with what he had to work with !


:ditto: . looks like a usable, easy to store unit. And better yet, it was just laying around...

#19 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 04:16 AM

It looks like the frame was not damaged when they welded the motor mount. I think what they did was to take the mount and put it under the frame, then welded it. To compensate for the height there was a big washer on the top of the mount. When I looked at the machine I didn't realize that this was not normal. It looks like I can grind out the remaining mount and grind down the welds over top of the rivets and get a flat surface to work with. I can already see through the centre of one of the rivets.
As far as the drive shaft goes - I got the key out of the shaft and the keyway is fine. The shaft is worn a little on one side but I think it will be ok. If the fit is loose I will use a little jbweld to fill it in when assembled. The other end is what concerns me. If anyone has ever removed a groove pin from the hydro shaft please let me know how you did it. I am thinking I should just put some JBweld in the hole on the non contact side to keep the pin from slapping back and forth and assemble it, check the runout of the coupler after assembly, and if it is low then go with that for now. Those pins are hard and this one is worn on one side and rusty. To get it out I would probably need to disassemble the rear end of the tractor and build some sort of pin press to get it out. I'll have a closer look at it to see if I can figure something out. Any advise would be gratefully accepted.
Thanks

#20 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2011 - 08:23 PM

Brian, I think that's a right nice hoist you've built there! Functional, efficient, easily storable...what more could you want?
As to the thing you're calling a groove pin.... does it look like this picture?
Posted Image
If so, then they make a set of punches designed for removing them. They look like a regular punch, except they have a half "ball" in the center on the driven end to keep it centered on the pin. Heres a picture of one:
Posted Image
I hope that this helps you out.

#21 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 05:19 AM

Brian, I think that's a right nice hoist you've built there! Functional, efficient, easily storable...what more could you want?
As to the thing you're calling a groove pin.... does it look like this picture?
Posted Image
If so, then they make a set of punches designed for removing them. They look like a regular punch, except they have a half "ball" in the center on the driven end to keep it centered on the pin. Heres a picture of one:
Posted Image
I hope that this helps you out.


Hello Caseguy

What you have in the picture is a spring pin. A groove pin is a solid pin with raised areas that create a very tight fit. I have only dealt with them once. In that case the pin was 3/16" in diameter and pressed into a centrifuge motor shaft about the same diameter as the hydro input shaft. The original pin was a spring pin like above and it was working it's way loose and ending up in the centrifuges with a 20lb head and buckets spinning at 3000rpm. The pin would get between one of the buckets and the alluminum bowl/refrigeration evaporator and destroy the bowl. It would cost about 5K$ to repair. The manufacturer replaced the spring pin with a groove pin and they supplied a special press to install it. A lot of force was required to press it in. I retrofitted several of them and they never moved. That is why I am leary of trying to remove the pin. To pound on it would likely damage the bearing in the hydro shaft.
When I look at JDparts the new hub has 2 set screws instead of the groove pin. I will probably order the parts ($32) anyway and see if I can come up with a way to get the pin out without damaging anything. Thats why I would like to hear from anyone who has experience with these. I may have to go to MTF or WFM to get some advise but I want to try here first.
Thanks for the input!

#22 mjodrey OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 05:47 AM

Now I would call Steve has pictured ,a roll pin.

#23 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 06:34 AM

looks like you have a challenge ahead of you. Good luck getting that pin out. Anyway to file/grind down dia. of pin on one side so if it starts moving, it will be easier to get out? From pics, it looks pretty tight area to work.

#24 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 06:36 AM

Now I know what you're talking about. I have also heard them referred to as splined pins. Only time I was around one, they used heat to take it out. If it's somewhere you can't heat, can you make a press?

You may be able to call these people Pin-Tech Products Grooved Pin Technical Information and see if they can tell you how to remove and reinstall one of their pins... If you get the right guy answering the phone, could be worth it.

Good luck!
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#25 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 07:24 AM

I don't have those type of pins, but having the info posted may be a help in the future. Thanks.

#26 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2011 - 08:15 AM

Now I know what you're talking about. I have also heard them referred to as splined pins. Only time I was around one, they used heat to take it out. If it's somewhere you can't heat, can you make a press?

You may be able to call these people Pin-Tech Products Grooved Pin Technical Information and see if they can tell you how to remove and reinstall one of their pins... If you get the right guy answering the phone, could be worth it.

Good luck!


Yes, I think the term splined pins may be more common. JD uses the groove pin designation in the parts list. They can be a real beast to remove. I cannot use heat in that area so that is out. I may be able to make a press to get it out. All this started with what should have been a simple motor mount replacement. I found the drive shaft wear/damage when I was removing the engine. The isolators they use are plastic discs that transmit torque but have some flex for vibration. The 317, for instance, uses u joints on the drive shaft, which is a better system. I think that the broken motor mount, which looks like it was defective for a long time, was causing a lot of vibration to go into the shaft and likely contributed to the wear. Bad choice by whoever did the original hack job on the mount.
Tomorrow I'll take some measurements of the hub and see if I can come up with a press of some kind.
Thanks for the input

#27 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted May 15, 2011 - 06:24 AM

I got the mount area prepped. I had to grind away what remained of the old mount carefully until I was back near the original frame opening. I then had to flatten away the built up weld on top of the frame to make a flat level surface for the mount. I used a 5" angle grinder with a 4" disc on it to slow down the removal of material. It took me a couple of hours to grind it off and make final adjustments with a file. I test fit the mount and it looks good. I'm going to clean and de-rust the area and prime and paint it before fastening the mount. I'm waiting on parts for the driveshaft so I have some time to do a bit of restoration. Here's some pictures.
Mount area prepped.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

  • Mount test fit.jpg

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#28 Sawdust OFFLINE  

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Posted December 27, 2014 - 05:17 PM



Here are some pictures of the damage and of my DIY engine hoist (Don't laugh too hard!) . The hoist worked fine for a 120lb engine but I wouldn't trust it for much more.
Yes, I need a new end -About 25$ and still available. I am giving the parts guy at my dealership a workout! In the pictures you can see the wear on the hydro end.
I am having trouble seeing how the shaft and couplers are supposed to work. Is the rear coupler at the hydro supposed to act as a one axis universal joint with the pin allowing the shaft some free movement or is it supposed to be a tight fit? The front shaft end just has a key with no set screws. Is that to allow some front to back movement? I have had no experience with these so I am wondering if the pin can be removed without damaging the hydro shaft. The only groove pins I've dealt with have needed a special pin press for removal and replacement. If you have ever dealt with one of these I would appreciate any advice.
Thanks Again

I like the lift Brian, that's some improvising for sure. 






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