Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Kohler Command CV16


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 11, 2016 - 09:39 AM

I have a 1998 Craftsman LT1000. The engine starts easy, runs and idles smooth. However, it is overly loud even with the factory muffler and seems to have excessive crankcase pressure as oil was spraying out of the filler tube when I removed the cap.

It will not run up to full speed and seems sluggish and low on power.

The oil was clean, I removed the valve cover and spun it over. The ACR and valves look to be working properly. I pulled off the head, the cylinder bore looks great with no ridge and very clear cross hatching is visible and the push rods are straight. Head gasket also looked fine.

To me, the engine appears to have low use or at least good maintenance. I can't see anything wrong with the top end, and with the ACR kicking in and out properly I don't see a need to open the bottom end. Does anyone have any advice or experience with this issue? Should I be looking at fuel or ignition problems?

I thought of the possibility of a plugged muffler but being it was so loud with low power and too much crankcase pressure but I don't know if that would make sense.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  • elenaoi16 and mariettava16 have said thanks

#2 Auburn David OFFLINE  

Auburn David
  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 61865
  • 2,754 Thanks
  • 1,962 posts
  • Location: Alabama

Posted April 11, 2016 - 09:53 AM

worn cam..or plugged exhaust..might also check for a bent shear pin in the flywheel(affects timing)


  • RAJ said thank you

#3 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

HDWildBill

    Freedom is not Free. Thank those in uniform for your freedom.

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 6354
  • 8,705 Thanks
  • 8,559 posts
  • Location: Ga

Posted April 11, 2016 - 11:08 AM

 

 

However, it is overly loud even with the factory muffler and seems to have excessive crankcase pressure as oil was spraying out of the filler tube when I removed the cap.

 

My first guess would be a plugged Crankcase breather filter and or line.  Next wold be an over filled Crankcase.  Did the oil smell of gas?


  • RAJ said thank you

#4 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 11, 2016 - 01:35 PM

The oil was a little low if any and there was no obvious evidence of gas contamination. The breather in the valve cover seemed clean. I will have to look at the timing and try a different muffler to see if that will make a difference. I just can't see anything else wrong so far and wanted advice before I get a new gasket to bolt the head back down.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

#5 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

EricFromPa

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2135
  • 2,300 Thanks
  • 2,334 posts
  • Location: Bedford County Pa.

Posted April 11, 2016 - 03:23 PM

Head gasket may have had a small blowout.They just blow a small channel through between the push rod galley and cylinder.They get progressively worse and open up over time.

 

You can't pull the dipstick out on a any Vertical engine while there running without getting covered in oil.The oil level is actually Just below the bottom of the dipstick about 1/2" below.With the rotating of the crank and piston moving in and out it pushes oil up the tube when you remove the dipstick.

 

Lucky you didn't cover yourself in hot oil when you did that lol.I did that 1 time years ago with an old vertical Briggs engine and learned a lesson real quick lol.That was an oily mess.I had oil all over me and everything else.

 

Those are pressure lubed.They have a small oil pump + the natural splash lubrication of a vertical engine.They are a bit louder than a briggs but have alot more torque.

 

I put a 12.5hp kohler command on a mower that had a OHV 17hp briggs on it.The Kohler had quite a bit more power even before the briggs carb flooded the engine full of gas and it was run with 1/2 gallon of gas in the oil and blew it up.My neighbors fault for not ever checking the oil on his mower.


Edited by EricFromPa, April 11, 2016 - 03:32 PM.

  • RAJ said thank you

#6 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

EricFromPa

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2135
  • 2,300 Thanks
  • 2,334 posts
  • Location: Bedford County Pa.

Posted April 11, 2016 - 03:39 PM

Does it have one of those goofy mufflers that's shaped like a bread pan? About a 10 inches long and 5 inches thick that hangs down in front below the grill?

 

Those mufflers are prone to bulging.When they bulge like that the exhaust goes around the baffle inside the muffler and straight out the bottom.You can beat it back to normal shape and it will quite it down quite a bit.

 

Is the exhaust manifold gasket still intact under the header pipe?Those things blow out from time to time also.


  • RAJ and Auburn David have said thanks

#7 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 11, 2016 - 07:27 PM

It does have the goofy bread pan muffler. Maybe it did just buldge like you say. I can't see it being plugged just because of how loud it is, much louder than it should be. Almost sounds like there is no muffler. The manifold gasket was still in good shape.

Good to know oil spray is normal, was thinking maybe it had too much pressure. Interestingly, the engine would slow down when I loosened the dipstick, not sure if that would indicate something.

At this point, although the head gasket appeared to be fine, I'm leaning toward that being the culprit since I can't really see anything else wrong so far. I've had several older K series engines apart that ran and this looks to be in much better shape than anything else I've looked in.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  • Auburn David said thank you

#8 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 11, 2016 - 07:40 PM

I was looking at the specs of these engines while looking at the online service manual and was somewhat impressed with the displacement and torque ratings in comparison to the advertised horsepower. I can believe they might have the same or more power than a "bigger" B&S. As far as I know, the Command is a pretty good engine, other than the common ACR failure. On the other hand, the Courage is a farce. As one guy said, they call them Courage because that's what you need to own one..

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

#9 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 17, 2016 - 11:08 AM

Had some more time to spend on this. I put it back together, cleaned the fuel bowl and did a leak down test. The gauge indicated some minor wear, but still plenty good to run.
f5cf9ba2fdda8692f0a7c58c06c6d6a8.jpg
I tried running it without the muffler and there was no change in performance, other than being louder than my 69 Ford pickup with headers! I guess the muffler is doing its job...

I also adjusted the governor and still no change. Everything I've looked at seems to be working as intended, so the only thing I have left to look at is the timing. It did seem to be backfiring through the exhaust and actually did a slight run-on when I shut it off. Maybe this is evidence of the timing being retarded? Guess it's time to check the flywheel key.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Edited by RAJ, April 17, 2016 - 11:09 AM.

  • Auburn David said thank you

#10 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 17, 2016 - 11:33 AM

It's not over until it's over but I'm pretty sure my problem is this sheared flywheel key.
42ff231fa70b556f45e19d83882f78e5.jpg
When I took the bolt out, it didn't seem like it was tight enough, guessing this is the main reason for slipping.

I'm sure a new key is cheap. I've learned a lot about these engines and feel even more confident in tearing something open. This is just a run of the mill Craftsman but it's been a great machine to learn on. It should clean up nicely and will make someone a good mower for at least a little while longer now.
76bd2cd1a95fe7b2618473647734e801.jpg

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Edited by RAJ, April 17, 2016 - 11:34 AM.

  • Auburn David said thank you

#11 Auburn David OFFLINE  

Auburn David
  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 61865
  • 2,754 Thanks
  • 1,962 posts
  • Location: Alabama

Posted April 17, 2016 - 11:56 AM

You have some nice tires there...and the shear pin is always the first thing I check when and engine starts acting wonky...LOL


  • RAJ said thank you

#12 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 17, 2016 - 01:07 PM

You have some nice tires there...and the shear pin is always the first thing I check when and engine starts acting wonky...LOL

I've always had a thing for tires, especially lugs. I have around 10 different sizes and styles of ag tires for my tractors. I got some of them pretty cheap but probably still spent too much on them overall.

I've never run into the key issue but I'm usually tinkering on the older K series. Like I said, a good learning experience and now I know a better checklist order to diagnose a problem. Start with the easy stuff first. I went a little overboard taking it apart after only hearing it run for a couple minutes. Just glad to know it wasn't a lost cause.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  • Auburn David said thank you

#13 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 18, 2016 - 06:44 PM

Bought a new flywheel key today. I found the Kohler part number online for the key and called a local small engine shop. They put me on hold for four minutes so I called the local Deere dealer to inquire about the key. They could not cross the Kohler number so I suggested they try to locate it using a John Deere STX tractor tractor as they also used the Command engines. Turns out they had 6 keys in stock so I picked one up. Cost a whopping 61 cents including tax and even came in a John Deere bag

I just installed the new key and torqued the flywheel to spec. It started right up and ran very smooth, and very quiet! It must have been firing just as the exhaust valve opened before because it was insanely loud! I am super pumped that it was such a cheap and easy fix. The education I got in a couple days of tinkering on this was well worth the cost!

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  • limebuzz said thank you

#14 EricR OFFLINE  

EricR
  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 9495
  • 393 Thanks
  • 278 posts
  • Location: Central PA

Posted April 20, 2016 - 08:48 PM

RAJ, wonder what sheared that key like that????

The last time I have heard a key shearing is in push mowers that hit something and that was years ago...


  • RAJ said thank you

#15 RAJ OFFLINE  

RAJ

    JMC fan

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 40
  • 302 Thanks
  • 318 posts
  • Location: East-central Minn

Posted April 21, 2016 - 08:38 AM

RAJ, wonder what sheared that key like that????
The last time I have heard a key shearing is in push mowers that hit something and that was years ago...

This is the first time I've ever dealt with a sheared key but my guess is that the flywheel wasn't properly torqued from new. The compression is pretty high and with the weight of the flywheel, any amount of kick-back from starting and shutting off the engine was more than the key could take.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  • EricR said thank you




Top