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John Deere 212 - No spark

john deere 200 series no spark ignition electrical kohler k301

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#1 hixson212 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 02:50 PM

I have an old 86 John Deere with an Kohler k301.  A few weeks back I rebuilt the engine.  When I pulled the engine I didn't mess with any electrical.  After rebuild I put the engine back in and tried to fire it up, nothing.  Discovered the starter wasn't kicking out, just spinning, replaced the started and now it turns over.  Engine turns and sound great but no spark.  Replaced the ignition coil, spark plug wire, spark plug, and points .. still nothing.   Anyone have any advice or direction to where to start .. ??



#2 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 03:01 PM

Welcome to the forum. If this is battery and coil ignition, do you have voltage to the coil? If it's electronic, make sure the kill wire isn't grounded.


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#3 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 03:19 PM

Welcome to GTT. In the big Kohler Manual should be a Troubleshooting Guide. Follow it to diagnose the problem. You can download the Manual from our Manuals Section. Good Luck, Rick



#4 BigFlash OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 03:51 PM

did you paint the engine when you rebuilt it? do you have a good ground?


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#5 hixson212 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 04:21 PM

DougT - I have electric to the ignition coil. Test light lights up when touched to the + side of the coil (where the wire from the key switch wire connects to the coil).  But the test light doesn't light up on the coils negative side nor at the points.

 

BigFlash - I didn't paint the block. The only electrical that I messed with was the rectifier regulator (what the stator runs to, two AC and the B+) ... but that was just because I never unplugged the stator from it.

 

 

I have the service manual and even the owners manual.

 

 

Could it be a bad wire? (from the coil to the points) ....

 

I have the condenser grounded between the coil bracket and the back engine shroud (around the one 7/16 cap screw)

 

I read into looping the two safety switches (pto neutral start switch and the transmission neutral start switch) to eliminate them causing a fault ... think I should start there??

 

 

thanks guys



#6 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 05:49 PM

DougT - I have electric to the ignition coil. Test light lights up when touched to the + side of the coil (where the wire from the key switch wire connects to the coil).  But the test light doesn't light up on the coils negative side nor at the points.

 

 

 

I have the service manual and even the owners manual.

 

 

Could it be a bad wire? (from the coil to the points) ....

 

 

Is the coil getting hot? the negative side should flash while cranking. It could show either when not cranking. If it never lights, either the coil is bad or there is a ground in the wire. Take the wire off the negative side and see if you show voltage at that side of the coil. If so, then something is grounded to or at the points. Take the wire off the points and check again. If the light lights at the neg then its right at the points.


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#7 hixson212 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 08:01 PM

thanks DougT -- tonight I'll check the negative side to see if it flashes when cranked (with the points wire hooked up and with the points wire unhooked) ... i'll have to grab up my multimeter tomorrow and check the volts on the negative side of the coil.



#8 hixson212 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 08:19 PM

DougT -- no light with points hooked up ... light with points unhooked.  Gives me hope. I put on new points when I rebuilt but I held onto the old ones (known good ones).  I'll make up a replacement wire for points tomorrow. Thanks



#9 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted April 03, 2016 - 09:16 PM

thanks DougT -- tonight I'll check the negative side to see if it flashes when cranked (with the points wire hooked up and with the points wire unhooked) ... i'll have to grab up my multimeter tomorrow and check the volts on the negative side of the coil.

The light is a good enough indicator of voltage, no need for the meter. Did you unhook the wire at the points or the coil post? If you had it loose at the points and it lit, the wire is OK. If not, taking it off at the points and testing is the next step. Can you see the points moving when cranking? The side of the points that the wire hooks to has to be insulated when the points are open. You can take the wires off and test them with an ohm meter.


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#10 hixson212 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 04, 2016 - 08:28 AM

I unhooked the points wire at the coil post. Didnt check the points movement while cranking, but i will when i get home. Brought the points wire with me to work, figure I'll make a new one up. I'll test the original one too. Thanks
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#11 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted April 04, 2016 - 11:59 AM

If you have the wire all the way out between the points and coil and it doesn't have bare spots or was pinched anywhere, it wasn't the problem. Something is grounding out the points all the time. You did gap them at .020??


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#12 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted April 04, 2016 - 12:02 PM

I have seen the little grommets on the points box go bad and then the metal of the breaker box  rub into the wire causing grounding

Try and see if you get spark with the points cover off.


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#13 hixson212 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 05, 2016 - 07:47 PM

If you have the wire all the way out between the points and coil and it doesn't have bare spots or was pinched anywhere, it wasn't the problem. Something is grounding out the points all the time. You did gap them at .020??

 

 

I have seen the little grommets on the points box go bad and then the metal of the breaker box  rub into the wire causing grounding

Try and see if you get spark with the points cover off

 

 

 

Took the points wire off and tested it, it does have continuity.  I even made up a new wire with crimp on forks.  The original points wire had a 1/4 inch (or slightly larger) spot were the insulation was off. I believe that was where the grommet covered the wire.  I taped over that (figured it wouldn't hurt because its low voltage. 



#14 hixson212 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 05, 2016 - 08:01 PM

If you have the wire all the way out between the points and coil and it doesn't have bare spots or was pinched anywhere, it wasn't the problem. Something is grounding out the points all the time. You did gap them at .020??

 

 

I have seen the little grommets on the points box go bad and then the metal of the breaker box  rub into the wire causing grounding

Try and see if you get spark with the points cover off.

 

 

Took the points wire off and tested it, it does have continuity.  I even made up a new wire with crimp on forks.  The original points wire had a 1/4 inch (or slightly larger) spot were the insulation was off. I believe that was where the grommet covered the wire.  I taped over that (figured it wouldn't hurt because its low voltage. 

 

 

-- Sorry, it posted before I finished ...

 

        - The points are gapped at 0.020

        - Points move when engine is cranking

        - Didn't fire with points cover off

 

   - Tried to fire it up with both, the original points wire and the new one (used 10 gauge).

   - Added a spark plug tester light in series with a known good spark plug ... it didn't light while cranking but it light up a quick flash on the downside on the cranking (not sure the term .. but it was when the key was turned counterclockwire back to the ON pos but the flywheel was on its last rotation.)

 

   - Could it be the condenser??? (bad ground or even a bad part?)


Edited by hixson212, April 05, 2016 - 08:03 PM.


#15 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted April 05, 2016 - 09:31 PM

I'd say either your condenser or your points are shorted to ground. Put a piece of paper between the points so you know they are not making contact. then see what it takes to make your test light light at the point wire with the key on. you can remove the condenser wire to test it. Check the path from the wire to the point to make sure it isn't touching the ground anywhere.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: john deere, 200 series, no spark, ignition, electrical, kohler k301

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