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Deere v. Case/Ingersoll


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#1 Mitchkrama OFFLINE  

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Posted March 23, 2016 - 09:31 PM

Hey everyone I'm trying build a small tractor to move snow, pull a box scraper, and push material. Ive narrowed my search to either a Case 400 series or a Deere 300 series (also considering Deere 140). Here's my pros and cons with the two machines:

Case is cheaper, simpler in design, and easy to move around thanks to the hydraulic drive system, but is harder to find implements for

Deere has auxiliary hydraulics, split breaks, easy to find implements for, and I already have a set of brand new AG tires for it, but are much more expensive for the core tractor.

It's worth noting I have a simplicity (deutz allis) sunstar with a 20hp Kohler magnum I was planning on transplanting into one of these machines I'm trying to acquire, as well as the sunstar's locking rear end that I believe is the same used on the Deere 400 series that I was hoping to swap out if I went Deere, but I don't know if it's feasible.

What do you guy think? I appreciate any advice I can get
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#2 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted March 23, 2016 - 09:50 PM

With the parts you already have, I would be looking for a 318 with a bad engine. The 2 speed rear end will bolt right in and you only have to cut a hole for the H-L selector. I don't know how much work will be involved in transplanting the Kohler, although I doubt much. I can't speak about the Case as I haven't owned one long enough to know about them.

BTW, Welcome to GTtalk, glad to have you here!!
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#3 jd.rasentrac ONLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 03:54 AM

:welcometogttalk:  from the homeland of Deutz tractors, Mitch. Imo every tractor you select is the right one. It's only important that you enjoy your tractor!


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#4 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 06:11 AM

Welcome to GTT. Check out our Manuals Section for info you might want. As a Connecticut Swamp Yankee, I'm curious why you don't just stick with what you have? Good Luck, Rick


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#5 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 07:12 AM

The Deere for sure! As the Case rigs are also going to be hard to find goodies for. Hydrostatic transmission is a lot better in my opinion ( take it how you like it) than hydraulic drive, more efficient, and precise . And the Peerless 2500 or 2600 trans-axle is very rugged!!
And as a whole, the Deere is a much more composed machine.
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#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 07:37 AM

If you want to transplant that reared you need to stick to the 318 ,332 etc. The older 300 series 317, 314 etc. have the Dana rear end that is welded to the rear frame assembly. You would need to rebuild the entire rear frame if you went to a conventional Peerless style rear end. 


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#7 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 10:12 AM

In my opinion your working with 3 good machines. All have their strong points.
I have a 318 and like it. Would like to have a case but have yet to find one.
And in my opinion no one makes a better mowing machine than the simplicity built machines.
Since you already have a Sun Star why not rebuild it?
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#8 Oldford OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 10:46 AM

If you want to transplant that reared you need to stick to the 318 ,332 etc. The older 300 series 317, 314 etc. have the Dana rear end that is welded to the rear frame assembly. You would need to rebuild the entire rear frame if you went to a conventional Peerless style rear end. 

...and transplanting into a Case can cause problems with the hydraulic pump and front pto...

 

Hey everyone I'm trying build a small tractor to move snow, pull a box scraper, and push material. Ive narrowed my search to either a Case 400 series or a Deere 300 series

I have a simplicity (deutz allis) sunstar with a 20hp Kohler magnum I was planning on transplanting into one of these machines I'm trying to acquire, as well as the sunstar's locking rear end

 I had both types, case 444 Deere 300.  if you travel around new england including nys can find deals on both brands if you can wait. 

 

A high wheel case has better traction and ground clearance but more tippy on hills.  the case plow is more rugged but no power angle.  both plows have hydraulic down pressure and float.  

A 54" plow is too small for my driveway in maine.   I need a blower more than a plow so kept the case and sold the deere.  the case snocaster is simple and parts are cheap.  but a blower is worthless in summer.

 

brand downsides...

Case can have an exploding rear end from weak bolts.  Ingersoll has a repair kit and all axle parts if needed pretty cheap considering.  Case hydraulics and linkages are packed in tight and can be hard to work on.

 

Deere has mounts and joints that wear and can take out the hydro input shaft.  if the driveshaft comes loose it can take out the charge pump & lines.  so you have to stay up on maintenance like any old tractor.  old deere split brakes have 4 shoes that are expensive, even used.

 

Both brands get hydro leaks from age, some you can never seem to find without ripping everything out.  easier to keep cardboard underneath...

 

Rear sleeve hitch about the same for both, around $150 used.  3pth is harder to find, around $500 each brand... and up...

 

Case and Deere have quick hitch pins on the front so plows go on easy.  Also front & rear pto available.  Can you keep the sundstrand for something else like mowing so you don't have to swap a deck out all the time.  just wondering, good luck


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#9 Delmar ONLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 10:51 AM

:welcome: Glad u found this site, bunch of great folks here!

I like both tractors and have owned a Case 446 and a Ingersoll 4020.  I've also owned a John Deere 318 and a 420.  The Case-Ingersoll 400 tractor series is good, it has a hydraulic drive system, but unless you have a limiter valve installed in the drive system they can free wheel up or down hills, going forward or backward.  Make sure it has good brakes.  The 300 series 318 John Deere tractor has a hydrostat  transmission and doesn't have the free-wheel problem on hills like the Case does, plus it has dual hydraulics versus the single hydraulics of the case tractor.  Both tractors are single wheel drive.  A John Deere 400 series tractor (like a 420 or 430)  have 3-spool hydraulics, 2-speed transmission, and a locking differential.  push down on the foot control and both tires dig in.  That Simplicity Sunstar you have is a great tractor too.  Why not just keep it?


Edited by Delmar, March 24, 2016 - 03:20 PM.

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#10 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 02:36 PM

:welcometogttalk: :camera:


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#11 Mitchkrama OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 04:03 PM

Thank you everyone for responding with your feedback and welcoming me to the group in general. I learned some new things just reading through the responses. I'll try to reply as I can.

#12 Mitchkrama OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 04:08 PM

With the parts you already have, I would be looking for a 318 with a bad engine. The 2 speed rear end will bolt right in and you only have to cut a hole for the H-L selector. I don't know how much work will be involved in transplanting the Kohler, although I doubt much. I can't speak about the Case as I haven't owned one long enough to know about them.
BTW, Welcome to GTtalk, glad to have you here!!

Thank you for confirming my beliefs on that sunstar rear end, that is exactly what I wanted to do. I've found a 318 locally with unknown hours (est over 1000) and only comes with a deck for $1200. But I'm in no real rush to grab the first machine I find.

#13 Mitchkrama OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 04:12 PM

Welcome to GTT. Check out our Manuals Section for info you might want. As a Connecticut Swamp Yankee, I'm curious why you don't just stick with what you have? Good Luck, Rick


I can't find any implements for the sunstar plus the machine needs work and vibrates a lot. I got it for cheap enough that I'm willing to scavenge it for parts and scrap the leftovers.
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#14 Mitchkrama OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 04:20 PM

:welcome: Glad u found this site, bunch of great folks here!
I like both tractors and have owned a Case 446 and a Ingersoll 4020.  I've also owned a John Deere 318 and a 420.  The Case-Ingersoll 400 tractor series is good, it has a hydraulic drive system, but unless you have a limiter valve installed in the drive system they can free wheel up or down hills, going forward or backward.  Make sure it has good brakes.  The 300 series 318 John Deere tractor has a hydrostat  transmission and doesn't have the free-wheel problem on hills like the Case does, plus it has dual hydraulics versus the single hydraulics of the case tractor.  Both tractors are single wheel drive.  A John Deere 400 series tractor (like a 420 or 430)  have 3-spool hydraulics, 2-speed transmission, and a locking differential.  push down on the foot control and both tires dig in.  That Simplicity Sunstar you have is a great tractor too.  Why not just keep it?

Glad to be here and thank you for that owner feedback, it's the best kind you can get. The property the machine is going to reside is about an acre and a half and is rather flat with no steep slopes, so free-wheeling or braking are not a worry for me. I actually enjoy the fact I can push the case around without having to start it, it's just a convenience factor more then anything.
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#15 Mitchkrama OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2016 - 04:31 PM

Can you keep the sundstrand for something else like mowing so you don't have to swap a deck out all the time.  just wondering, good luck


Thanks for that well detailed response! For the record I never conceived of trying to shoehorn the sunstar reared into a case, but thanks for advising against it. The property is rather flat so tipping and braking are not real concerns of mine. In terms of mowing, that job is reserved for my Ferris IS2000 Z-turn with the independent suspension system that rides smoother then any other mower I've ever rode.
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