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Starters, etc...


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#1 SC Farmer OFFLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 05:39 AM

Aarrrgh!  Working on these old tractors can be danged frustrating some times!  Like ya'll don't already know that, right?

 

Okay.  I finally got the broken off bolt fixed on the exhaust manifold by having a new bolt welded on - that worked great.  I proceeded to start putting the top of the engine back together, i.e. I mounted the exhaust manifold and the intake manifold and put the carb back on.  It was really starting to look good. I decided then to remove both heads, clean out the expected carbon buildup (there was some) and re-mount them with new gasklets.  Good preventive maintenance.  Well, the first 17 bolt heads came out fairly easy.  A couple needed some persuasion with heat and PB Blaster, but no big deal.  Then I hit the last bolt.  Nada. Wouldn't move.  Soaked it for days in PB, hit it with heat etc. but still nothing.  Then it started to move, or so I thought.  Snap. Yep, dang thing broke off.  Tried using a come along to remove the stub and IT broke!  Soooo, took it to the machine shop.  He worked on it for two hours and finally told me he will need to remove the engine so he can put it sideways on his drill to drill it out and tap it.  Aarrrgh. Well, most of the attachments are already loose (wiring harness, etc.) so that's what I'm going to do.  I figured that would be a good time to take a look at the starter, right?   The starter in it right now works okay, but it doesn't look like it's disengaging from the flywheel.  Might just be stuck or rusty, not sure at this point.  

 

What would the Forum think about replacing the starter while the engine is out?  I've looked at eBay and can get a new starter for $50+ dollars, but the company selling them stated to me the parts "come from overseas".  Hmmmm.  Do I think that means China? Hmmm.  

 

I read an earlier post about problems with aftermarket starters.  What do ya'll think?

 

Jim  :wallbanging:

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#2 WrenchinOnIt ONLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 06:08 AM

Even a genuine Kohler is Chinese nowadays, I just take my old ones to the local repair shop and have them rebuilt for around $ 60-70, guarantee if your shop is reputable yours rebuilt/refurbished will outlast a Chinese throwaway. These are such a PITA to change on the Large Frames, your going thru this much work, I think it would be worth it, even if it just needs maintenance now is the time to have it serviced.
Been there done that on snapped off bolts, I now go strait to the drill out and re-tap method, done buying solid carbide cutter to remove a broken ez out.

Edited by WrenchinOnIt, March 22, 2016 - 06:23 AM.

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#3 jms180 ONLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 07:01 AM

A good welder can weld a nut on the end of that broken bolt and turn it out. The heat from the welder will loosen the stuck threads has worked for me.


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#4 grattone ONLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 07:28 AM

Before I purchased a starter I would try cleaning and maybe shimming the starter where it mounts to the engine. just my 2 cents


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#5 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 07:45 AM

A good welder can weld a nut on the end of that broken bolt and turn it out. The heat from the welder will loosen the stuck threads has worked for me.

Muffler and exhaust shops run into this all the time.  They do exactly what kms180 said.  Next size larger nut and weld it full then turn it out.  May have to add a little more heat to block where it is froze at but it will come out.


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#6 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 07:45 AM

Welding a nut on the broken bolt seems like a good idea , I've never had good luck with screw extractors either , but this is the kit I use for getting the drill to be centered . you would put the head back on and use a " drill guide " to keep the drill bit centered , even if you don't use it as an extractor you'll get a nice straight hole

 

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#7 blackjackjakexxix ONLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 08:31 AM

I also would take it to a shop and have it gone over,you will be sick if you put it back on and a week or so from now it gives you issues and you have to lift the motor back out


Edited by blackjackjakexxix, March 22, 2016 - 09:33 AM.

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#8 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 08:56 AM

For the amount of effort involved, get it rebuilt by a shop or get a Genuine Unit. The $50 starters on ebay are very poorly constructed and if you weight an OEM vs. Aftermarket you will see what I'm talking about.


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#9 SC Farmer OFFLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 11:08 AM

Thanks for all the comments.  Already had the welder (28+ years experience) try the weld on a nut method - no go - the stub wasn't long enough and the bolt is basically fuzed with the block - the only avenue left is to drill and tap it.  Anyway, the block will be coming out, probably next week.  After reading all of the Forum input, I think I will take off the old starter and take it to a local starter/generator shop and have them rebuild it.  I'm not really in to buying Chinese junk if avoidable.  Shoot, that's one reason I got the Bolens in the first place!  So I will be prepping the motor for removal this week.  It'll also give me a chance to finish the basic cleanup of the block and motor mount on the 1886.  It really had a lot of dirt/gunk built up from the old mechanical fuel pump that was spewing out oily air in it's previous life...

 

I really need to get ONE of my three mowing machines working!  Spring has sprung big time in SC and the grass/weeds are getting pretty long.  I wait much longer and I'll have to get a sickle bar mower or bush hog!  Looks like the first candidate for mowing duty will be the old and boring JD.... :(


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#10 Bud W OFFLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 11:27 AM

I bought one of those aftermarket starters for one of my 1886's and don't have any complaints with it! It bolted right in and was $69.00 shipped to the door with a new bendix.


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#11 SC Farmer OFFLINE  

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Posted March 22, 2016 - 04:23 PM

Gives me something to ponder while I get the engine ready to pull...


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#12 SC Farmer OFFLINE  

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Posted April 11, 2016 - 04:14 PM

Okay, I got the engine out today.  That was fun!  I soaked the drive shaft at the forward universal with PB Blaster for a week, tapped it with a hammer about a hundred times, and then used a large crow bar to force tit out.  I will be de-rusting it for sure when I re-attach it, believe me! The machine shop has it now and will drill out the broken off head bolt and tap it, then I'll put it back in.

 

While it's out I had planned on replacing the starter.  Got a new one and everything.  While the engine was sitting on the shop floor, I thought I'd remove the old starter.  Wrong.  First I noticed that the bolt heads are recessed and I can't get a wrench on them without removing the bottom engine shroud.  Of course the shroud can't be removed without removing the flywheel.  I really didn't want to remove the flywheel!

 

Am I missing something here?  Is there an easier way to replace the starter without pulling the flywheel? Geeze louise!

 

Looking for some advice from smarter people than me.

 

Thanks ya'll.

 

Jim



#13 WrenchinOnIt ONLINE  

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Posted April 11, 2016 - 05:16 PM

Well they are a ROYAL PITA to remove with engine in the unit, however a ratcheting combination wrench and a large amount of patience has always worked, engine out just means access to the starter is better, the mtg bolts still a pain. There is a recess that usually the lock washer is in. If the bolts are fully recessed then the recess must be large enough to allow a socket around it. If that's the case then you'll have to pull the fly wheel,not that bad of a job with the engine out, you can borrow a slotted gear puller from AutoZone or Advanced , you'll have to remove the PTO sheeve off the stub shaft , the grass screen, then remove the stub shaft, the nut is an 1-1/2" has a toothed captive washer that you'll have to flatten the ears to remove the nut, it's a tapered shaft on the crank and even though "they" say not to put an impact on the gear puller , unless you have a 24" pipe wrench and a cheeter on it, someone to hold the opposite side of the crank, an impact is the best option. Be a good time to clean the backside or the flywheel and check condition of the magnets, (fyi 120 ft lbs on the flywheel retaining nut when it goes back on)

Edited by WrenchinOnIt, April 11, 2016 - 05:38 PM.

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#14 Bud W OFFLINE  

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Posted April 15, 2016 - 11:18 AM

That's odd, I only had to remove the motor mount bolts to get my starter out! I don't remember what I used to get the starter bolts out though. I'm certain that I didn't take the blower housing off!


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