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Ford LGT 145 Open-Side PTO/Steering


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#1 Heffalump OFFLINE  

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Posted March 15, 2016 - 12:31 PM

In my attempt to get my wife's tiller up and running as quick as possible, I decided to take what I thought was a short-cut and completely swap over the PTO shaft and brackets from my roached-out 145 Closed-Side (CS) to her nicely restored 145 Open-Side (OS.)  As some of the more knowledgeable folks here can already guess, I have hit a few issues.  Please forgive my terminology, I'm a Jeep guy.  I'm still trying to learn the correct tractor nomenclature... ;)

 

#1: The PTO shaft interfered with the lever-arm (pittman arm) of the pinned-on steering arm assy, regardless of which PTO pulley bracket I had mounted to the block.  I solved this issue by swapping and drilling the key/clamp style steering arm from the CS.  The PTO shaft was then able to run behind the steering arm, but this also created a new problem....

 

#2: The steering linkage to the front wheel now hits the tub since the key/clamp style steering arm sticks out farther from the frame rail than the old style.  I tried mounting the linkage to the back side of the arm, but then the rod hits the frame rail.

 

The tub from the CS didn't match the foot mounts for the OS, so I couldn't swap tubs.  I ended up taking a cutting wheel to the OS tub in order to create reliefs for the pillow block bearing and the steering rod linkage.  I'll be bending some new metal this summer to weld it in and cleanly cover it.

 

So now I'm left with the last problem, and that is the PTO shaft has a slight downward angle towards the front of the tractor.  I don't really think this will be an issue since many threads here talk about the shaft normally operating with a "slight bend" in it due to the design of the tensioner and mounts.  I'm wondering if the angle is due to the 12hp engine?  Is the 12hp a little shorter than the 14hp this tractor is supposed to have?

 

Does anyone have a good source for PTO small parts like bearings and retainers and such?  Also, any tips on making the wood-block bearings that this tractor is supposed to have?

 

-D

 

 



#2 propane1 ONLINE  

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Posted March 15, 2016 - 12:54 PM

Engines are mounted to the frame differently in open and closed sided tractors. That may make the difference in height.

Noel

#3 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted March 15, 2016 - 05:19 PM

WOAAAAAAWW WOAAAAWWW!!!! HOLD IT !!!Your making a simple installation a disaster!!! DO NOT USE ANY STEERING STUFFS FRON THE CLOSED SIDE TRACTOR!!! Make sure the rear pto mount is installed correctly first and foremost! Then you will need to move the ignition coil out of the way. Then you can mount the front bracket loosely, slide the pto shaft from the rear to the front don't worry yet about mid shaft bearings, they were made from wood on the open side machines.
The shaft should just clear the frame and steering linkage and points ignition cover. Here are a few pics of my 125. The rear pto bracket looks different, but trust me, it is a factory replacement, updated for better 3 point action. Read through some of my projects they will walk you through your dilema.

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#4 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted March 15, 2016 - 05:31 PM

Check out my custom 3 point hitch thread, and jump to page10 and start looking at all the picks of all the great info. Ill bump the thread up front.
The reason that you want to keep the open side steering stock is they just work much better than the closed side rigs!! The open side tractors steer better than the closed side unts, they turn faster and a pinch tighter, changing the pitman arm will alter this . so my advice would be to put it back stock and find out why your having an issue.

Edited by skyrydr2, March 16, 2016 - 05:32 AM.

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#5 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted March 16, 2016 - 05:36 AM

Also I noticed when I installed the pto shaft to my diesel converted unit I was able to use the closed sided pto brackets with ease , and that's on a Kubota 3 cylinder.

#6 Heffalump OFFLINE  

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Posted March 18, 2016 - 02:31 AM

Thanks for TTT'ing the 3pt thread. Firemang's restoration utilized some off-the-shelf parts. Great for easy repairs, tricky for factory fitting of components. Couple that with this being the wrong engine, and things get funky.

I notched the tub. I feel bad for doing it, but I did it cleanly and will be welding in covers this summer. I will also be building a new drag link and tie rod, units with oppositely threaded ends. The good part is that I got the first garden bed tilled today. It is all nasty red clay with lots of rocks. I went through 4 shear pins on the tiller drive. Had to make two passes on each row. That tiller just keeps going, though. Tomorrow and Saturday we'll be adding about 5 yards of soil and compost and tilling it in.

Keith, how feasible is your 3pt setup if one wishes to use the tiller regularly? I want to be able to use my cultivation and furrow, but I also need to till. I have a second tiller mounting bracket and was thinking of modifying that as well as making an upper yoke to work for my plow and cultivator. Thoughts?

#7 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted March 18, 2016 - 06:18 AM

Not sure I understand your question? My 3 point system is just about flawless , if you read that entire thread you would see all the progress, and prototyping that was done to come up with the final product.
I converted my tiller to be a true 3 point hitch attachment. The factory setup sucked if you were in a hurry to mount and dismount. Because you need to remove the 3 point lower arms and vertical links. i use the living Dickens out of mine! Nice thing is i can use it on both my tractors with ease .
I converted the lower arms of the factory tiller mount into a sleeve hitch for one of my Tractors so I have all the goodies to play with.

#8 Heffalump OFFLINE  

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Posted March 18, 2016 - 11:26 AM

Oh, I read all 18 pages.  It is an extraordinarily sexy 3pt lift, far superior to the janky factory setup, and definitely well worth the asking price.  I saw the part about the sleeve hitch and your comment about the converting back and forth to the factory tiller setup being a PITA, hence your mod of the factory tiller/bracket.

 

I guess I should reword the question.

 

In your experience, would a simple lower mount and upper yoke, similar to the design used for the factory tiller, be satisfactory for operating a furrow and cultivator?  You posted a picture of some dog-leg lower arms that you stated did NOT work well for a furrow, referencing side load and twisting.  This would indicate that you have a level of experience that would suggest my asking your opinion on a mounting idea would not be inappropriate.  Factory tiller mounts with a simple bar-stock pivoting yoke at the top, and a ladder-ish bracket at the bottom.  If I were to fab another yoke and bracket that would fit my furrow and cultivator, do you think that would work well, or do you think, given your experience, that it would be a waste of time?

 

The wife and I are currently in the market for a 30-40 hp 4wd tractor.  We have a good bit of land to clear, boulders to move, stumps to pull, fence posts to sink, etc.  As much as I want to totally pimp out every piece of power equipment I own, from chainsaws to Jeeps to quads to tractors, I have to exercise some level of fiscal responsibility.  Whatever larger tractor we buy will have a 540 PTO with a 3pt lift, so I don't see a need to put one on the LGT.  The LGT's job is to maintain the wife's food-plots, nothing more.

 

Now, if it were a 165 with a posi-unit or a diff lock, my feelings would likely be different....


Edited by Heffalump, March 18, 2016 - 12:14 PM.


#9 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted March 19, 2016 - 03:25 AM

The factory mounting of the tiller is very good and very stout, but not easy to mount and dis mount as a true 3 point, but it would work awsome for any implement ,just a little harder to put those 2 lower pins in and out is all.
As long as the setup is rigid it will work good, if allowed to swing side to side or twist in any way it wont work well and be very frustrating.

These tractors pull best at 6-7" behind and 13" from level ground of the centerline of the rear axle ;-) with that sub consiously in the back of your mind you can design your hitch.

Personally, a sleeve hitch will work awsome for your food plotting plans, it will attach as the tiller does, and allow for a ton of widely available attachments.
I hope i was able to answer your question(s)? I am lucky enough to have 2 tractors to play with so this makes comparing quite easy, my 125 is factory stock in every way and my 165 is just the opposite, modified to the max, but retaining all the stock attachment points plus.

Edited by skyrydr2, March 19, 2016 - 04:04 AM.

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#10 Heffalump OFFLINE  

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Posted March 19, 2016 - 11:57 AM

That is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!!

I have a line on a basket case 165. I'm trying really hard to ignore it, but I am not doing well....

#11 Heffalump OFFLINE  

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Posted April 08, 2016 - 12:12 AM

Well I resisted the basket-case 165. Got this instead....

#12 Heffalump OFFLINE  

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Posted April 08, 2016 - 12:15 AM

Free delivery, too!

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#13 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted April 08, 2016 - 05:53 AM

Good luck with your new toy, and the dark side... ( shuddering) LOL that should make a nice driveway and food plot.

#14 Heffalump OFFLINE  

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Posted April 08, 2016 - 11:31 AM

Thanks!

 

The silver lining is that now the LGT can become a project without a defined timeline.  My wheels are already turning.  Is it possible to re-power it as a 165?  I'd rather have the 16hp, or maybe even a small diesel. And most importantly, the posi-rear.  I mean, with 23 acres I'm sure I'll find use of a second small tractor.  I just need better traction out of it.

 

Maybe I should follow @Chopperhed and turn it into a crawler.....


Edited by Heffalump, April 08, 2016 - 11:31 AM.





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