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Electric Winch Speed & Leverage


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#1 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 08:12 AM

Last year I purchased a Bolens G16XT.  I has a 12 Volt winch mounted on the back frame plate with the cable attached to the sleeve hitch.  Winch is used to raise and lower attachments.  I am thinking that by putting a pulley on the sleeve hitch and attaching the cable end to the top of plate where the winch is mounted, it would increase the pulling power of the winch.  But would it slow the lifting of the sleeve hitch also?  As it is set up now a 1 second push of the button lowers the attachment completely.  Take about 2-3 second to raise it.  I would like to slow this down by 1/2 if possible.


Edited by chieffan, March 13, 2016 - 08:12 AM.

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#2 CanadianHobbyFarmer OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 08:35 AM

That should work and it should slow it down by exactly half.

 

Jim


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#3 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 08:37 AM

You will gain nothing with one pulley. Have to have two pulleys for any difference in speed or strength.


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#4 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 09:33 AM

No, one pulley will do it so long as the pulley is attached to the hitch and the free end of the cable is mounted back at the tractor.

 

If you set it up so the cable out and in stay parallel you'll halve the speed and double the force.  If they aren't parallel your speed/force will vary across the travel.  Keep them reasonably close to parallel and you should get exactly what you want.


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#5 toppop52 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 10:39 AM

Yep, that's what I did, a pulley block at the hitch, the 1700 lb winch will lift double discs and my big butt.



#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 11:06 AM

Think of it this way. If the pulley has to move 1 inch, then the cable will need to move 2 inches because you have to shorten it 1 inch on both runs (to and from the pulley). 



#7 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 11:16 AM

No, one pulley will do it so long as the pulley is attached to the hitch and the free end of the cable is mounted back at the tractor.

 

If you set it up so the cable out and in stay parallel you'll halve the speed and double the force.  If they aren't parallel your speed/force will vary across the travel.  Keep them reasonably close to parallel and you should get exactly what you want.

I do not see how you think the pulley location makes any difference. I've worked with snatch blocks a lot you never get more power out then you put in a single pulley no mater where you put the pulley. Simple mathematics tit for tat move a inch it moves a inch pull a pound force it's a pound force on other side of pulley. Cat can tell you the same working with heavy equipment a single pulley just puts you in better position. A lot of off road  folks will swear by a single block it's just more cable out making winch drum smaller more torque.


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#8 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 11:25 AM

Yep...adding a "snatch-block" will double the pulling strength and double the time to lift/pull.

 

Old fellow in town had a junker looking wrecker, but with a snatch-block or 2 he could pull a loaded freight train!


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#9 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 12:17 PM

I do not see how you think the pulley location makes any difference. I've worked with snatch blocks a lot you never get more power out then you put in a single pulley no mater where you put the pulley. Simple mathematics tit for tat move a inch it moves a inch pull a pound force it's a pound force on other side of pulley. Cat can tell you the same working with heavy equipment a single pulley just puts you in better position. A lot of off road  folks will swear by a single block it's just more cable out making winch drum smaller more torque.

The way it read the post they were talking about the end of the cable location.  The pulley would be centered on the sleeve hitch in line with the original lift arm. 
The part that is foggy, from this link: (  ) and above post is how the end of the cable placement changes the speed and pulling power.  They refer to it as single line and double line.

 

Sorry the link would not post?


Edited by chieffan, March 13, 2016 - 12:19 PM.


#10 ol' stonebreaker ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 12:46 PM

  Gopher, as already said if the cables out to the snatch block stay parallel the pull will be doubled, disregarding frictional losses in the snatch block, and speed will be halved. If the cables aren't parallel and the cable end is anchored to something besides the load then speed and pull will vary depending on the distance between the snatch block and the winch. If the snatch block is just used to change the direction of pull in relation to the winch, which means the cable end is attached to the load to be moved, then there is no change in mechanical advantage. In fact there will be less pull as compared to a straight pull due to frictional losses in the snatch block  I hope this is plain to understand. If it is then all I can say is If I agree with you, we'll both be wrong.

                                           Mike


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#11 ol' stonebreaker ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 12:49 PM

  Chieffan, If the winch drum is full of cable, reducing it to just 3 or 4 wraps on the drum when the hitch is all the way down will reduce speed and increase pull.

                                  HTH,

                                           Mike


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#12 Phluphy OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 01:00 PM

  Chieffan, If the winch drum is full of cable, reducing it to just 3 or 4 wraps on the drum when the hitch is all the way down will reduce speed and increase pull.

                                  HTH,

                                           Mike

Right on. Less wraps on the drum = less load on winch and less speed. I can move a 1000 # log with my little Warn 2000 and not begin to notice heat build up with 1 or 2 full wraps, third wrap and it starts heating and torque is reduced considerably.


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#13 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 01:32 PM

  Gopher, as already said if the cables out to the snatch block stay parallel the pull will be doubled, disregarding frictional losses in the snatch block, and speed will be halved. If the cables aren't parallel and the cable end is anchored to something besides the load then speed and pull will vary depending on the distance between the snatch block and the winch. If the snatch block is just used to change the direction of pull in relation to the winch, which means the cable end is attached to the load to be moved, then there is no change in mechanical advantage. In fact there will be less pull as compared to a straight pull due to frictional losses in the snatch block  I hope this is plain to understand. If it is then all I can say is If I agree with you, we'll both be wrong.

                                           Mike

OK, Now I see where the difference is.    The winch 6K rated and has about 5 or 6 turn around the drum.  Not a full 1st layer yet.  Was that way when I got it.  Will go with the pulley on the sleeve hitch and anchor the thimble to the frame along side the winch spool.  Thanks for the information.  Could not get it through my head at the time.  Or maybe it went clear through?


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#14 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 03:46 PM

I do not see how you think the pulley location makes any difference. I've worked with snatch blocks a lot you never get more power out then you put in a single pulley no mater where you put the pulley. Simple mathematics tit for tat move a inch it moves a inch pull a pound force it's a pound force on other side of pulley. Cat can tell you the same working with heavy equipment a single pulley just puts you in better position. A lot of off road  folks will swear by a single block it's just more cable out making winch drum smaller more torque.

The OP is describing the top configuration.
 

pulley.jpg

 

The bottom configuration is what you're thinking of, and you're correct it won't change the speed or lifting force.


Edited by MiCarl, March 13, 2016 - 03:47 PM.

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#15 toppop52 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 09:02 PM

I don't have a good close up of the hitch, but it's the same way, doubles the power, cuts the speed in half. Second pic is the control switches.

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