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What does "Original" mean to you?


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#1 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 09:14 PM

While doing a search on Craigslist earlier tonight, I was disappointed to find that most people don't know the meaning of "Original" anymore. So, since this is a garden tractor website, and most of us here are always willing to help out when we can, let's try to do our best in clarifying to those of us who visit this site looking for knowledge, or maybe trying to find answers to the questions they can't figure out when it comes to tractors. 

 

"ORIGINAL" to me means factory authentic paint, factory issued tires, factory issued seat, no alterations of any kind to the tractor or attachment(s), no reproduction parts, no replaced decals, and if included no photo copied manuals or literature. Batteries are the only thing in my opinion that can be replaced and not considered as original. If belts need replaced, then they should be factory brand belts. 

 

I am seeing so many tractors listed for sale as "Original", "One Owner", "Rare", "One of a Kind", and after checking out the auction or listing, I find that 99.9% of these tractors are not as advertised. The sellers claim that the tractor is completely original, but yet you see over spray or paint on the decals or serial number tags, or better yet, over spray on the tires because someone didn't tape off the rim. The motors are supposed to be untouched originals, but yet you see new replacement head bolts. When listed as "One Owner, all equipment bought new in 19--", you find that most of the attachments are newer than the tractor and couldn't have been purchased back when the tractor was bought new. In most cases, all four tires have been replaced, which to most collectors isn't such a bad thing, however when the asking price of the package reflects that of what a real authentic "Original" tractor would be selling for, then that's false advertising.  

 

On another note (time to vent a little) I also get upset over the asking prices lately. What is making these guys think that they need these ridiculous prices for stuff that is still able to be found? I found two auctions tonight that both had 110 round fenders for sale. The one was a 1966 110 with manual lift. It was covered in rust, has a severely busted hood, all of the guards are missing, it hasn't run in over five years, there are no attachments included, and he wants $1,000.00 firm! Really???? The second listing was a 1964 110, listed as "Rare", had a newer four speed transmission in it instead of the original three speed transmission, the frame was cut due to getting the newer transmission in, had a flat fender 10hp engine with starter in it instead of the original 8hp with the starter/generator, and the hood supports were cut up due to the larger engine, and the mower deck that is included looks like swiss cheese. This guy wants $1,500.00 for the tractor, just because he thinks it's "Rare". Where do these guys come up with their pricing?? Neither of these tractors are hard to find, and frankly, neither of them in my opinion are worth more than $150.00 each.

 

The thinking of most sellers is getting way out of hand now days, as pricing is through the roof lately. Whether it's original parts, reproduction parts, factory dealership parts, or even tires, it's getting to the point that it's almost impossible to finish a restoration now days without spending almost double of what the tractor will be worth when it's completely restored. It used to be that we were all in this hobby to help each other out, but lately it's all about how much money can I make off of this? It's just wrong in my book. Taking advantage of someone else just to get rich quick, only hurts the hobby, as most people just starting out won't be able to afford the high prices. I remember when money wasn't even a thought, as you traded parts that were needed. Collector helping a collector. Don't see many of those days anymore, but if things keep going the way they are, there won't be others in the hobby to even trade with.

 

Don't get me wrong here, I don't mind paying a reasonable or fair price for something that is completely original and don't need any work done to it, or even a nicely restored show ready tractor, however I refuse to pay a high dollar amount for something that was painted over quickly, when it should have been set out along the curb on trash day!  

 

 


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#2 Little Irish Men OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 09:26 PM

:iagree:  :ditto:  :yeah_that:  And it's good to see you back .

 

Patrick.


Edited by Little Irish Men, March 13, 2016 - 12:23 AM.

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#3 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 09:31 PM

The local Craigs list is about like a joke with all the overpriced well used equipment. Especially the ones that keep the ad up for a year or more.
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#4 twostacks OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 09:37 PM

I agree with ya on the meaning of original but I think on some of the old manufacturers you'll be hard pressed to find an all original condition piece of equipment. I guess it shouldn't be advertised as an original then, if the replacement parts just aren't available anymore. As far as the two JDs that you mentioned, those guys either don't have a clue or they're looking for a sucker. Honestly, I'm not a John Deere guy and wouldn't exactly know what they would be worth, but I have enough common sense to question those high prices. 


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#5 Mtypython ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 09:39 PM

To me original is the way my panzer is actually all of mine are un restored. Might have to fab parts for the bready but it is what it is mechanical resto is acceptable as long as it is stock replacement parts.
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#6 Eric ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 10:17 PM

Yes you are correct, just like classic cars went in the late ninety's this hobby is not far behind! I remember the day that a classic non numbers chevelle caught 65000 on auction and not soon after only rich guys with a Lowes special tool kit could afford a car that should
fetch a mere couple thousand. Now you don't see mechanics own muscle cars anymore in fact now we have reached a point where most people don't even know what Yenko or Copo mean! Our hobby is not far behind, as are all things that could possibly be fun and affordable for you and me. They have a term now, "Maker",and guys that tinker call themselves this, I wouldn't dare how embarrassing! Enjoy it while it lasts we are not long for this world.
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#7 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 10:36 PM

Original/Survivor to me is original paint/light touch up, no major components replaced or if so, with factory authorized replacements.
Expendable parts (wear items) being replaced are ok.
Batteries, oil, belts, even tires fall in this category for me.
Headlights burn out, nails get run over, belts shred on Sunday in the middle of mowing, and batteries mysteriously roll over and float.


As for the pricing, it's cyclical.
We used to collect MH Tractors. Had a bunch of them. When Dad passed, I tried to sell a couple... No dice.
Can't even get what he paid for them. They used to be worth twice that much or more.
The GT's will come down, it may be a decade, but they will come back down.
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#8 toppop52 ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 10:46 PM

If you realize it can only be original once, that should define it.
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#9 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 11:44 PM

All Original = Untouched, original everything.

Original = All major parts factory issued (engine,frame, transaxle, sheet metal), wear parts like belts and tires may be replaced. May or may not be restored.

Factory Correct = All parts on it are correct to serial number code / year built as close as possible.

"Original" = Everything on it came from the same manufacturer, even though it was parts from 10 different tractors because they were all rough on their own, so I am in the hole financially and this is how I plan to get my money back and a small profit.
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#10 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 06:34 AM

.
"Original" = Everything on it came from the same manufacturer, even though it was parts from 10 different tractors because they were all rough on their own, so I am in the hole financially and this is how I plan to get my money back and a small profit.


:thumbs: :rolling:

Don't forget "Rare" "Unique and "One of a kind"

They go hand in hand with the "Restored" and "Refurbished" tractors mentioned previously
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#11 propane1 ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 07:03 AM

This applies to tractors too.

Noel

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#12 ckjakline ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 07:55 AM

While doing a search on Craigslist earlier tonight, I was disappointed to find that most people don't know the meaning of "Original" anymore. So, since this is a garden tractor website, and most of us here are always willing to help out when we can, let's try to do our best in clarifying to those of us who visit this site looking for knowledge, or maybe trying to find answers to the questions they can't figure out when it comes to tractors. 

 

"ORIGINAL" to me means factory authentic paint, factory issued tires, factory issued seat, no alterations of any kind to the tractor or attachment(s), no reproduction parts, no replaced decals, and if included no photo copied manuals or literature. Batteries are the only thing in my opinion that can be replaced and not considered as original. If belts need replaced, then they should be factory brand belts. 

 

I am seeing so many tractors listed for sale as "Original", "One Owner", "Rare", "One of a Kind", and after checking out the auction or listing, I find that 99.9% of these tractors are not as advertised. The sellers claim that the tractor is completely original, but yet you see over spray or paint on the decals or serial number tags, or better yet, over spray on the tires because someone didn't tape off the rim. The motors are supposed to be untouched originals, but yet you see new replacement head bolts. When listed as "One Owner, all equipment bought new in 19--", you find that most of the attachments are newer than the tractor and couldn't have been purchased back when the tractor was bought new. In most cases, all four tires have been replaced, which to most collectors isn't such a bad thing, however when the asking price of the package reflects that of what a real authentic "Original" tractor would be selling for, then that's false advertising.  

 

On another note (time to vent a little) I also get upset over the asking prices lately. What is making these guys think that they need these ridiculous prices for stuff that is still able to be found? I found two auctions tonight that both had 110 round fenders for sale. The one was a 1966 110 with manual lift. It was covered in rust, has a severely busted hood, all of the guards are missing, it hasn't run in over five years, there are no attachments included, and he wants $1,000.00 firm! Really???? The second listing was a 1964 110, listed as "Rare", had a newer four speed transmission in it instead of the original three speed transmission, the frame was cut due to getting the newer transmission in, had a flat fender 10hp engine with starter in it instead of the original 8hp with the starter/generator, and the hood supports were cut up due to the larger engine, and the mower deck that is included looks like swiss cheese. This guy wants $1,500.00 for the tractor, just because he thinks it's "Rare". Where do these guys come up with their pricing?? Neither of these tractors are hard to find, and frankly, neither of them in my opinion are worth more than $150.00 each.

 

The thinking of most sellers is getting way out of hand now days, as pricing is through the roof lately. Whether it's original parts, reproduction parts, factory dealership parts, or even tires, it's getting to the point that it's almost impossible to finish a restoration now days without spending almost double of what the tractor will be worth when it's completely restored. It used to be that we were all in this hobby to help each other out, but lately it's all about how much money can I make off of this? It's just wrong in my book. Taking advantage of someone else just to get rich quick, only hurts the hobby, as most people just starting out won't be able to afford the high prices. I remember when money wasn't even a thought, as you traded parts that were needed. Collector helping a collector. Don't see many of those days anymore, but if things keep going the way they are, there won't be others in the hobby to even trade with.

 

Don't get me wrong here, I don't mind paying a reasonable or fair price for something that is completely original and don't need any work done to it, or even a nicely restored show ready tractor, however I refuse to pay a high dollar amount for something that was painted over quickly, when it should have been set out along the curb on trash day!  

I agree with you Troy,Ive been noticing that a lot lately.I really like when they are selling parts that are still available at the dealer for more than what the dealer charges.

These people have no clue how to describe what they are selling.They have something from mid 60's and they think it's gold.


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#13 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 08:02 AM

To me "Original" means as built at the factory.  Maintenance items like tires, belts fuel lines need replace with 'like kind'.  Ag tires is not original.


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#14 backwoods OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 08:47 AM

Impo "original" would be a unrestored rusty crusty oil covered leaking mess with general maintenance like tires an belts the battery.

I consider a "rare" item something that is even hard to find an documentation on let alone parts anywhere these are the items normally buried in the weeds at a farm or out in the sticks.

Now as far as a survivor would be in my book I would consider either a mint piece that's covered in dust under a tarp in a barn or something that was well used an never had any paint work either factory dry rotted tires or at least time period correct tires broken or bent hoods, cracked an torn seats.

 

Any I can agree on the prices of some gts in my area some are way over priced for my liking but others seam as if there too low priced hence the owner either doesn't know what they have or just wants it gone fast.


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#15 TomLGT195 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 09:22 AM

Troy, I'd say you hit it on the head.  "it's rare" because they don't know anything about the hobby or what it is!  And they've seen someone on TV sell something old for $$$ so what they have must be too!


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