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Oil Type for Simar Fuel Mixture

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#1 morepower302 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 11, 2016 - 10:20 PM

Hello Everyone,

I have a Simar 46Dk that I plan on using to till our garden this spring. It's been years since I've had it running and can't recall what oil is best to use in the fuel mixture. The tag on the machine states "Mobile B SAE 50 or 60" mixed to a 16:1 ratio. Would any standard straight SAE 50 or 60 weight oil be acceptable or is there something better on the market today to use?

Thanks,

Kyle
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#2 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted March 11, 2016 - 10:57 PM

This is just food for thought.

  I occasionally work on old outboard motors. They used to use 30w motor oil mixed 16 to 1 because they used bushing type bearings. I would guess this is the story with your engine also. For years now people have been running standard outboard oils in them without any problems. It is important though that you use the same oil to gas ratio with the newer oils.  


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#3 morepower302 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 10:51 AM

Thanks for the input Cvans. Most my mechanical experience has been with 4-cycle gas and diesel engines and not as much with 2-cycle gas. I wasn't sure if using standard 2-cycle oil to the correct mix ratio would also be an option and equivalent to SAE 50 or 60.

#4 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 11:13 AM

I've seen warnings against using the modern 2 stroke oils in the old engines, even at the recommended ratio.. The old straight 30 2 stroke might be a better choice. Maybe Earthgrinder will chime in with his opinion.

 

edit: I knew there was a spec for the oil used in the older engines but had to go look for it. TCW-3 spec is what they recommend. Not sure if you could find that in a 40 or 50W or not but might search using that spec.


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#5 adamjd200 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 11:55 AM

I've seen warnings against using the modern 2 stroke oils in the old engines, even at the recommended ratio.. The old straight 30 2 stroke might be a better choice. Maybe Earthgrinder will chime in with his opinion.

 

edit: I knew there was a spec for the oil used in the older engines but had to go look for it. TCW-3 spec is what they recommend. Not sure if you could find that in a 40 or 50W or not but might search using that spec.

That's a debate that has been going on for years, I use the synthetic oil in most of my homelites but once I get my two man saw, and other early ones going I pla to go old fashion and use non-detergent 30w as my mix oil in those saws as I don't want to take a chance damaging them.



#6 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 04:12 PM

The problem as I understand it is that the non-detergent oils tend to build carbon a lot faster than the newer 2 cycle oils. I will say if I were in your shoes and the 50 to 60w oil was available that's what I would go with.  



#7 drbish ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 07:32 PM

The French Simar Site,yhttp://motoculteur-s...onseilmeca.html will have to translate,  


Edited by drbish, March 12, 2016 - 07:38 PM.

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#8 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 07:52 PM

The problem as I understand it is that the non-detergent oils tend to build carbon a lot faster than the newer 2 cycle oils. I will say if I were in your shoes and the 50 to 60w oil was available that's what I would go with.  

The non detergent does carbon up quicker. I've never had a problem with straight 30 detergent but not sure what its doing for your health breathing it. The TCW-3 is what the old 2-stroke oil used to be when it was sold in quarts and was all petroleum. They used to call it ashless oil. It was designed not to carbon up on the 2 strokes. That's what they recommend but everybody's experience and thought is different. I've had problems with a weedeater running straight 30 and an older Homelite running the synthetic.


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#9 earthgrinder ONLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 08:15 PM

You will probably never find agreement on oil for the old two-stroke engines.  If one wants to read up on some interesting info go to my Tech Page. 

Near the bottom are two links to articles on 2 stroke oil.  I think this gentleman speaks against using TCW-3.  He does suggest the Aero-Shell 40 or 50 weight oils.  For many years I used Golden Spectro High Point in my Frazer tiller at 40:1 with no immediate problems.  After 10 or 12 years I had to replace the leather crankshaft seals.  So, could be that at that mixture there was not enough oil to keep the leather saturated to reduce wear.  What people need to think about is that when these engines were built two-stroke oils did not exist.  I put confidence in modern developments in oils to the point that the modern two stroke oils are superior to the old mineral oils for these engines.  These are just my opinions and I make no claims or guarantees.  Currently I use brand name 2 stroke oil at the recommended 16:1.   


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#10 morepower302 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 12, 2016 - 11:45 PM

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm leaning towards using 50 or 60 weight oil, that is if I can find it. There is a small airport nearby so that may be an option. Earthgrinder makes a good point about the modern 2-stroke oils as well. They are formulated from years of development, and should offer improved performance over what was recommended years ago. My main concerns and reason for inquiring about this topic was to make sure I use an oil that offers the correct lubrication properties and is compatible with the metals in the engine.
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#11 earthgrinder ONLINE  

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Posted March 13, 2016 - 07:18 AM

I bought some of the Aero-Shell 40 weight on ebay.  There are two types of the Aero oil.  Make sure you get the one mentioned in the one article.

 

Post a photo of your SIMAR.  I have a C30 and did have a C51.


Edited by earthgrinder, March 13, 2016 - 07:22 AM.

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#12 morepower302 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2016 - 09:18 AM

Well after taking care of a few other priorities this spring I was finally able to track down some ShellAero 50 weight oil to try. I got the tiller running yesterday for the first time in over a decade. I was quickly reminded about how much of a beast it is! I got it into the garden and it chewed up everything in its path. It seems like I have a carburetor issue though. It quit running on me after about 10 minutes. It wouldn't restart so I decided to pull the bowl off and discovered about 1/4" of dirt in the bottom. I cleaned it out really well, made sure everything was clear, and reinstalled the bowl. I was able to get it running again for a little longer and then it quit again. I then proceeded to completely disassemble the carb and make sure I didn't miss finehing before. I cleaned all the jets out and made sure the float and fuel inlet valve are OK. As far as I can tell there's plenty of fuel getting into the bowl. I looked over the French Simar site and went through all the steps listed on there for carb and starting issues. Everything seems OK, except there's an inconsistent amount of fuel getting up through the jets. I discovered at the end of the day yesterday that if I put my hand partially over the inlet of the carb it will run fine, then I reinstalled the boot that goes from the air filter to the carb and got it to run again. I'm going to try to work with it more today but as of now I'm kinda stumped.

The picture of the 46DK on Donald's rototiller website is mine. That was when I first got it and Donald helped me out with a new starting belt for it. I'll try to get more pictures of it today if I can get it running and back in garden.

#13 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2016 - 09:33 AM

Maybe try revving it a little and choking it hard to see if you can suck the last little restriction on through? Maybe a partial restriction in the supply line, tank, or shut-off and the flow not keeping up with the need?



#14 earthgrinder ONLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2016 - 08:38 PM

Your fuel tank could be dirty and a chunk of dirt could be in the the line somewhere.  Pull the tank, thoroughly clean it the carb and the fuel line.  There was a lot of rust in my C30 tank.






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