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Sears GT/18 - Tecumseh solid state: help needed!

sears gt16 gt18 oh16 oh18 loader tecumseh solid state no spark

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#16 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 12:06 AM

.if you want to make a 12v system You don't need the stator but it won't charge without it unless you put a small alternator on it. You can't put any power to the solid state from the battery it will fry it. That's why you have to make a new pickup coil . If you do that. Second if up put the magnets back on that flywheel. You have to check the polarity . And put it so every other one is opposite as you reattach them . But they will stay on another 40 years if you clean it real good and re epoxy them. They were glued on from the factory.

Edited by Tecumseh power, February 23, 2016 - 12:11 AM.


#17 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 12:07 AM

My quote got messed up my answer is in the middle of your question above you will see it. Not sure why it did that. I'm on my phone

#18 money89tractors OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 12:12 AM

 

You can make a 12v system with a pickup and a 12v coil for a car. You don't need the stator but it won't charge without it unless you put a small alternator on it. You can't put any power to the solid state from the battery it will fry it. That's why you have to make a new pickup coil . If you do that. Second if up put the magnets back on that flywheel. You have to check the polarity . And put it so every other one is opposite as you reattach them . But they will stay on another 40 years if you clean it real good and re epoxy them. They were glued on from the factory.

 

 

I got it straightened out.

 

I was smart enough to leave all the magnets on the stator of the parts engine, so polarity should be easy to figure out. I knew they were glued, i was just unsure of what kind/strength or if there was a highly preferred product to use.


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#19 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 12:17 AM

If you get them messed up some how I use a magnet that looks like a pen for picking stuff up, I just hold it to the magnet I'm going to put on and one will push and one will pull , good luck tomorrow. You will get it!
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#20 GWest OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 04:27 AM

Don't the North and South poles of the magnet need to be oriented the correct way?

 

Garry



#21 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 09:23 AM

Thanks Tecumseh for the good words. I have learned waaayyy more than I had planned on these ignitions. The old saying  "mother necessity". you can click the link in my sig and see my custom battery-coil setup a buddy of mine built for me.

 

You can glue the magnets on with JB weld, did mine 4 yrs ago and still holding strong. When I pulled my flywheel, every magnet was stuck to stator, I was panicking for a second, but pulled them off carefully and then re-glued them. They were held from the factory with only a 2 sided tape product so any type of epoxy or glue will hold, just have to make sure it's super thin or magnets will rub on stator fingers. Remember, they are magnets, they basically hold themselves to the flywheel, the glue just keeps them in proper place.

 

There technically 2 wires on the charge coils that feed the module. The one comes out the front of the flywheel, that feeds the module with the juice it needs to fire. The other wire is wrapped up with the two charging wires and is the kill. If you were to pull the stator off, you would actually see where those two wires are soldered together coming off the stator.

 

*You can NOT run an SSI module without having the ignition charge coil part of the stator working properly, but it will run on it's own without the battery charge system working. Battery is just for starting the engine in this case.

*You can run a battery-coil system without the ignition charge coil working, but you need the battery charging part working properly....unless you have an external alternator hook to motor to charge battery. ( my 12 +v coil ignition sears ran for almost an hour and 1 /2 on just the battery when I unknowingly fried the charging wires on stator due to chaffed wires and hauling tractor in a rain storm)

 

 

you have probably found it already, but Ed's site is a great resource, learned about all I know from reading and emailing Ed.

 

Here is proper flywheel magnet placing....

http://enginesandmagnets.com/id2.html

 

I have to correct Tecumseh, I haven't repaired a module "yet" but I am in the process and working on figuring it out. I found a guy on another forum, his dad and he have repaired three of them, all for under $10 a piece.


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#22 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 05:33 PM

Lets see if this works.

Copied this from a Wheel Horse forum that I ran across a couple years ago when troubleshooting a Techy engine with ignition problems.

They do have a Condenser in them and the rest of the parts are very sensitive to moisture.Some can be baked in an oven to dissipate the moisture that's rendering it inoperable others will have burnt out components. 

 

 

Here is an X-ray view of what components are inside the Tecky SSI unt.

 

 

TechSSIModuleinnerslabeled.jpg

 

 

The CHARGE COIL you refer to and called out in the service manual as a possible source of problems is under located the flywheel.

 

 

 

techSSIstatorlabeled.gif

 

 

basically, the charge coil is excited by the magnets on the flywheel and sends pulses up to the SSI unit. SSI units charges up the capacitor in the unit and a pickup coil triggers off the long and short pins on the flywheel. The trigger pulses is recieved by the transistor inside the SSI unit and dupmps the capacitor charge into the coil primary - whiich of course - dumps energy into the coil secondary and ZAP - a spark.

 

 

SSISystemoverview.jpg


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#23 Georgia SS OFFLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 08:57 PM

HE GUYS

I HAVE HAD THE SAME IGN. PROBLEMS, REGLUED ON SET OF MAGNETS GOT LUCKY ON NORTH/SOUTH ORENTATION, DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING, THINK I GOT ONE FLYWHEEL MIXED UP WON'T FIRE, NEED TO GET THE JB WELD LOOSE SO I CAN CHECK THE NORTH/SOUTH SETTING, ALSO CUT INTO ONE SSI MODULE, PUT IN A DIODE TO USE A CHRYSLER ELECTRONIC IGNITION SET UP. OK MY QUESTION IS IF IT TAKES 12 VOLT FROM THE STATOR TO CHARGE THE SSI COIL WHY NOT USE 12 VOLT BATTERY POWER, OR DOES IT GET 12 VOLT, THE POWER FOR THE MODULE ONLY COMES OFF ABOUT ONE OR TWO SETS OF COILS AND THE REMAINDER CHARGES THE BATTERY.

REALY MIXED UP

JIMMY



#24 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted February 23, 2016 - 11:11 PM

That is more or less a graphical representation of what is going on. Like using water to explain how a transistor or a diode work.

Usually, the charge voltage is in the hundreds of volts at extremely low current.

Different versions have different polatrities, I believe there were also two different voltages.
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#25 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted February 24, 2016 - 12:30 AM

HE GUYS
I HAVE HAD THE SAME IGN. PROBLEMS, REGLUED ON SET OF MAGNETS GOT LUCKY ON NORTH/SOUTH ORENTATION, DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING, THINK I GOT ONE FLYWHEEL MIXED UP WON'T FIRE, NEED TO GET THE JB WELD LOOSE SO I CAN CHECK THE NORTH/SOUTH SETTING, ALSO CUT INTO ONE SSI MODULE, PUT IN A DIODE TO USE A CHRYSLER ELECTRONIC IGNITION SET UP. OK MY QUESTION IS IF IT TAKES 12 VOLT FROM THE STATOR TO CHARGE THE SSI COIL WHY NOT USE 12 VOLT BATTERY POWER, OR DOES IT GET 12 VOLT, THE POWER FOR THE MODULE ONLY COMES OFF ABOUT ONE OR TWO SETS OF COILS AND THE REMAINDER CHARGES THE BATTERY.
REALY MIXED UP
JIMMY

one coil on the stator is the charge coil for the ssi, it is ac current , power from the battery is DC current and is too many amps it will burn it out immediately . You don't need to take the magnets back off to check the north south, you just need to use a magnet you have laying around and hold it up to each magnet and make sure you have them alternated. There is two different systems a 10 and 20 amp but they use the same module it is just the output amps for the battery charging system

#26 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted February 24, 2016 - 12:31 AM

And the stator puts out more Than 12v volts

#27 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted February 24, 2016 - 08:01 AM

HE GUYS

MY QUESTION IS IF IT TAKES 12 VOLT FROM THE STATOR TO CHARGE THE SSI COIL WHY NOT USE 12 VOLT BATTERY POWER, OR DOES IT GET 12 VOLT, THE POWER FOR THE MODULE ONLY COMES OFF ABOUT ONE OR TWO SETS OF COILS AND THE REMAINDER CHARGES THE BATTERY.

REALY MIXED UP

JIMMY

This is from Eds' website, module coils produce 50-120V DC, way more than a 12V battery so a properly working stator is required for the module to fire.

The battery charge coils range from 28V AC and up to 42-45 V AC at WOT. The regulator converts it back to DC and a max output of 14.4V to battery.

 

 

The charge coil is wound on two poles with a very fine, 32 gauge ( .008"), wire with a resistance of 137 Ohms. The battery charging coils are wound with very heavy, 14 gauge (.0641") wire on the remaining 16 poles. The connection for the kill switch has a 40.5 olm resister in series with it and goes to the center pin on the plug. The voltage output of the charge coil disconnected from the SSI varies with RPM from 50 Volts peak to 120 Volts Peak.


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#28 money89tractors OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2016 - 09:01 PM

So, i got a chance to get out and mess with the gt18 today. 

 

Yesterday i glued the magnet to the flywheel using a 2 part epoxy. Heres the pics of that process:

 

IMG_20160226_145652365_zps4xj7xas9.jpg
 
Checking the polarity with a small magnet:
 
IMG_20160226_150335218_zpsjkfpjs2o.jpg
IMG_20160226_150326851_zpsuhyqh9ur.jpg
IMG_20160226_150309035_zpsktja7w04.jpg
IMG_20160226_150400452_zpsbccp7zjy.jpg
IMG_20160226_150410130_zpsnbkjkmip.jpg
IMG_20160226_150424999_zpsywxvuyfo.jpg
IMG_20160226_150434825_zpsqyzkogaf.jpg
IMG_20160226_150444899_zpsch5d4pky.jpg
IMG_20160226_150508560_zpsgifsoy7p.jpg
 
Heres my results::
 
IMG_20160226_150508560_zpsoiqjbvgt.jpg
 
I used a gorilla glue 2 part epoxy to glue the magnet back on. I used it because it had the highest bond strength of the selection i had available (3300 psi bond). I cleaned the surfaces on both the back of the magnet and the surface of the flywheel and put a thin layer of the epoxy on each. I used a folded up sheet of paper the make sure the gap between each end of the magnet was the same as all the others. Once i was satisfied with the placement i clamped the magnet with a c-clamp and left it for 24 hours. Heres the process and end product:
 

IMG_20160226_150521459_zps7ojr2azz.jpg
IMG_20160226_151319901_zpsvww7je4w.jpg
IMG_20160226_151719884_zpsovt6rx3y.jpg
IMG_20160226_152758668_zpsksya9g3y.jpg
IMG_20160226_153129374_zps7w84pmi8.jpg
IMG_20160226_153211369_zpslq9nb2g4.jpg
IMG_20160226_153332810_zpsq2k1rl1u.jpg
IMG_20160227_171514423_zpsmb7einpp.jpg
 
 
 
I reinstalled the flywheel, ignition unit, set the gap between the trigger pins and ignition unit, and plugged in the charge wire to the ignition unit and . . . . no spark.
 
So i again changed the coil with the spare i have, still nothing. I pulled the flywheel and tested the resistance of the stator and found that i could get some resistance reading, but never for more than a second or so. I made sure more connection points were clean and making good contact.
 
 
So, i the pulled the stator and found that the charge wire to the ignition unit was bare in one place:
 
IMG_20160227_185656_zpspncxr5sx.jpg
 
I again tried to get a good reading of the ohms to ensure the stator itself was good but cant get a reading at all. Heres some pics of how i was testing it and the results:
 
 
Tested from the bare spot to the plug-in. Had conductivity.
IMG_20160227_185021319_zpsnqls6jir.jpg
 
 
Tested from the break to the stator, had nothing (open circuit)
IMG_20160227_185233165_zpscfm5huor.jpg
 
Tested from the plug to the stator, had nothing (open circuit)
IMG_20160227_185244290_zps60vejvht.jpg
 
This picture just shows the my contact point on the stator is good.
IMG_20160227_185347511_zpsjv9oyw3f.jpg

 

 

So where do i go from here? Hoping im just a big dumby and im testing this stator wrong. I believe i am sincei was getting a resistance reading while it was on the engine (although i couldnt keep a reading, the ones that i was able to see as the popped up were between 130-180 ohms. But i would like a solid reading.

 

Thanks everyone.


Edited by money89tractors, February 27, 2016 - 09:08 PM.


#29 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2016 - 11:37 PM

You can take that wire out of it and replace it. (The charge wire) it goes to the charge coil. You can try that because at this point it isn't going to matter if you mess it up. You really can't mess it up if your careful. Then check and see how many ohms that it is reading. LoOKs like you have two breaks in it from your picture . One where it bends and goes in by the plug wires. And one a little further up. Just follow it to the charge coil on the stator and see where you want to remove it at. Those wires seem to always be broke or have a bare spot. The wire looks pretty corrected where you were metering it at the break. It may not have had good contact for the meter lead.
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#30 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2016 - 11:39 PM

You have to have a solid reading or it will never fire. You need to fix that wire. Should be around 137 ohms. When you get it fixed. And no your not a dummy . You were testing it right. Did you get another stator with your parts engine? If so you could check it and fix the better one it maybe cracked too but not as bad and keep the other for a spare

Edited by Tecumseh power, February 27, 2016 - 11:42 PM.

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sears, gt16, gt18, oh16, oh18, loader, tecumseh, solid state, no spark

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