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2 hard starting tractors, what gives?


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#1 glgrumpy ONLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2016 - 03:14 PM

Have two tractors that seem to start hard. Most times I use Start fluid to get going. ONe is that Speedex with the Vanguard V-twin, the other is a Wheelhorse with 14hp Kohler.  The vanguard you can crank and crank, fast too, but won't fire. IF I take cleaner top off and give just ONE little squirt it pops right off and will start next time I try each time if right there. Next day will be same cranking. What should I look at to fix?   ON the Kohler I'm kinda thinking the gas from rear tank somehow flows back to the tank, not staying in the line and pump takes long time to crank it up there again?  I have to spray LOTS of fluid in it to run for a while and then the gas starts coming and can stop spraying. Once it has run and warmed, it starts regular again. What should I look at?  Fuel pump? Is there a check valve in the pumps that might be leaking? Why isn't the gas in the carb bowl enough to start next time? Don't see how that can go down?  Has me puzzled. This one needs too much cranking and wears battery down fast. Wonder what it is doing to starter then too?


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#2 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2016 - 03:38 PM

Sounds like you might have fuel delivery problems on both of them.

 

On the Briggs I would pull the valve covers and replace the valve cover gaskets and the rubber washers.If they leak vacuum even a little bit it will significantly reduce the output of the Fuel pump.After that pop the top on the Carb and remove the Fuel Sending unit and give it a thorough cleaning with carb and choke cleaner.Stick the little plastic hose in every little hole and give it a couple healthy shots.

 

On the Kohler I can't help ya.I've always had my uncle work on them for me.I've never had a Manual Kohler pump apart.


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#3 Doxey OFFLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2016 - 03:44 PM

I had the same trouble with an 18hp briggs  flat twin.  I put a rebuild kit in the pump but didn't help.  So I bought one of those bolt on black fuel pumps on Amazon, by past the one on the briggs carb, and now it works just fine.  I didn't bolt the new pump down, just left it hang there.  I had to go to Youtube to learn how to hook it up.


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#4 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2016 - 03:54 PM

For about $10 including shipping you can get a 12 V fuel pump off eBay.  Will push about 3-5 lbs..  Bought one because I was told that a Kubota had to have one in order to start good.  WRONG !  Was in the upper 20's inside the shop yesterday morning, run the glow plugs for a min (by my watch, not guessing) and it fired right off.  I would put one of them on that Kohler first and see if that takes care of the problem.  Lot cheaper than a fuel pump kit and time messing with it this time of year.  Can always get another one for the Briggs.


Edited by chieffan, February 07, 2016 - 08:41 PM.

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#5 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2016 - 04:51 PM

The stock Aluminum Mikuni Fuel pumps are pretty good on the Briggs Vanguard twins.

 

My CC 2165 (16hp Vanguard) still had it's original Pump with 1,400+ hours on the working hour meter.The 16hp briggs Engine was starting to smoke a bit but it started right up easily and had plenty of power left to mow grass with it's 46" 3 blade deck.I did have to replace the valve cover gaskets on it when I got it.I thought the fuel Solenoid was bad on it and after spending $43 for a new one and finding that wasn't the problem.

 

I also had to replace the Fuel filter.Noticed that even after I replaced the gaskets the Fuel filter was not filling up over 1/2 way.It was one of those clear paper type filters.Tried blowing out the filter and it blew apart.The paper inside was rock hard and brittle.I stuck one of those cheap Red screen type Briggs filters on it.Never had a problem with it again.

 

Had to sell it to fund the engine rebuild of My CC127.


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#6 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2016 - 05:06 PM

Your symptoms sound similar to my Craftsman tractor when the fuel pump started to fail.  The tank on that one is lower than the carburetor and if I parked it half full or less I had to dump gasoline down the air intake to get it started.  The fuel pump eventually gave out all together and its fine with the electric I put on, although easier to flood.

 

If your fuel tanks are lower than the carburetors I'd suspect failing check valves in the fuel pumps.


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#7 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted February 07, 2016 - 05:08 PM

GL, that sounds like what I experienced with my Kohler M18. I took the pump off and checked it. It was definitely very weak. But when it was running still gave enough fuel. But was miserable to start.
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#8 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted February 08, 2016 - 08:14 AM

Oh they are just being grumpy! Don't you recognize the symptoms!

I know that those Kohler fuel pumps can be very weak and still supply enough fuel for the engine to run. I have a KT17 and the pump is very weak when you test it but still gets the job done. Long cranking time is a symptom, especially after sitting for a while. 


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#9 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 08, 2016 - 08:55 AM

I concur with pump being weak



#10 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted February 08, 2016 - 09:07 AM

  Fuel pump? Is there a check valve in the pumps that might be leaking?  Most pumps have a built-in check to prevent fuel from flowing backwards while it is operating, but they may not function after the engine is shut off.

 

Why isn't the gas in the carb bowl enough to start next time? Don't see how that can go down?  Has me puzzled.  Today's gasolines have a very fast evaporation rate of the volatile ingredients, so many times the fuel in the bowl evaporates when sitting between uses.  .....Heat conducted through the metal after the engine is stopped also hastens the evaporation process.

 

This one needs too much cranking and wears battery down fast. Wonder what it is doing to starter then too?  I think you know the answer to this question.

Are you sure there are not mechanical problems which are creating the hard starting?


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#11 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted February 08, 2016 - 12:32 PM

The Briggs has a fuel shutoff solenoid in the bottom of the bowl. could the gasketWasher) be leaking causing the bowl to empty?

I had one catch fire due to that , got it out found another solenoid and replaced the melted plug and it ran fine.



#12 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted February 08, 2016 - 12:46 PM

GL, I agree on the pump being your issue on both engines.
Been there done that. Onan for me, but same symptoms.
Get a good electric fuel pump, you will NOT regret it.

As a matter of fact, you will wonder why you didn't order sooner and pay for the expedited shipping.
It made that big of a difference

Only other time I've had one do something like that, the choke wasn't closing completely. Couldn't get a big enough wiff, so it wouldn't take off.
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#13 tater195 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 08, 2016 - 01:36 PM

1 contributing factor could be that the ethanol stuff seems to evaporate faster than regular gas.. one more "benefit" from corn juice






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