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Engine is stuck, and I need advice!


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#1 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 02:23 PM

I recently bought another 1965 110, and it was delivered on December 26, 2015. After unloading the tractor, the first thing I did was turn the engine over by hand to see if if had any compression. I was only able to turn the engine about a 3/4 revolution in each direction, assuming either the drive belt was stuck in the transmission pulley or variator pulley, or there was a broken rod keeping me from turning the engine completely over. So, with thinking this tractor project will just have to wait until another day, I pushed the tractor and parked it next to the garage. 

 

Yesterday, after getting one of the other 110's ready for plowing snow this weekend, I stopped and tried turning the '65 110 engine again by hand, and quickly found that it doesn't move! I only used the strength of my hands, and didn't use any tools for trying to break it loose. How can this be? Can an engine seize fast that quickly? If the engine does have a broken rod, what would be seizing and keeping the rest of the motor from turning, the crank? In just a couple of weeks? I'm telling you, this thing doesn't budge! :wallbanging: 

 

When the previous owner went to push the tractor around, he accidentally broke off the rusted muffler, which exposed a view to the exhaust valve. The valve is highly rusted and I'm pretty sure it will take some work in order to remove it. Even if the exhaust valve is stuck or rusted fast, that alone wouldn't keep the engine from turning over by hand would it?

 

I removed the spark plug yesterday, and from what I can tell, the top of the piston is highly corroded. Anyway, I filled the cavity as much as I could with penetrating oil, just to see if things will loosen up a bit, or just enough for me to break whatever it is that is stuck, loose. I also sprayed some penetrating oil in the exhaust hole, and tried to cover as much of the exhaust valve that I could, just hoping to make some headway when the time comes to take the engine completely apart and rebuild it.

 

Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.  :thumbs:    


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#2 Bud W OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 02:42 PM

It certainly could! I have a Kohler k482 that would act the same way. The cam lobes couldn't push the 1 exhaust valve open and thats where the crank rotation stopped, I soaked the valves with PB Blaster for a while then pulled the heads. With the lobe of the cam down (valves trying to close) I used a small brass drift and lightly tapped the valve until it popped shut. I turned it over some more and got it to turn over the whole way.


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#3 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 04:08 PM

I went out to the tractor after posting this, thinking I'll take the top shrouding off, along with the head, just to what is going on inside. Giving the engine drive pulley one more try in turning it, I found that I'm back to being able to turn it 3/4 revolution again!  :dancingbanana:  I guess the penetrating oil working on the piston and the exhaust valve over night worked. Another good sign is, with the spark plug still removed, I can hear the piston sliding up and down through the head. So with this said, I'm thinking Bud is correct, and the exhaust valve is the only thing keeping me from turning the engine over all the way. 

 

From the amount of rust on the exhaust valve, I'd say there was a bit of water laying in there for quite a long time. I don't think the rust will ruin the strength of the valve, however without the valve being removed right now, it's hard to see how bad the valve will be pitted. When it comes time to remove the valve, what are the recommendations for removing the rust before pulling the valve up through? If it turns out that this valve is the only thing from keeping this motor running, I'd like to pull it without too much rust and corrosion getting down into the lifters or cam shaft. Can it be done? 


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#4 tater195 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 04:13 PM

Soaking will help, but depending on how bad the valve is, it wont be a "fix".

I have scrapped a few blocks because a valve was seized so bad, I couldnt even hammer it in or out


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#5 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 04:19 PM

I would fill the cylinder to the top with ATF.  Then if possible, turn the exhaust and intake upward and fill also.  Leave filled till you have time to tear it down.  I'd say it would be best to go ahead and completely take it down when you can being you saw lots of corrosion down on the piston.  


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#6 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 05:04 PM

I agree with above but add that you should stop playing with it. It could easily damage the cam with any forcing. Just soak it, drain the old oil, and keep it dry until you can disassemble it. Hitting a bleeder valve twice a week, with PB Blaster, for 6 months saved me from having to do a major rear brake disassembly. Good Luck, Rick


Edited by boyscout862, January 21, 2016 - 05:37 PM.

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#7 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 05:16 PM

In addition to hitting the valve it's possible the cylinder corroded above the piston.  When the rings hit the corrosion that'll stop the piston too.  Force that and you could break a ring.

 

Head is going to have to come off.  I agree, oil it up so it doesn't get worse until you get around to it.

 

After the head is off you can have a look at the cylinder and decide whether you want to do a full rebuild.


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#8 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 05:35 PM

Some very good advise in the previous comments.  In you post you said you parked it next to the garage.  Leaving it outside is only going to make it worse.  Outside is what caused the problem in the first place.  Get some dryer sheet stuffed around it to keep the mice out and at least cover it up with a tarp if you don't have room under a roof.  More tractors are ruined by leaving them outside than anything else.  Good luck with your project.


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#9 glgrumpy OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 06:27 PM

Maybe water was in it once and FROZE?  I've seen that, heh!  If cylinder is crusty at top part, that piston isn't going fully to top. What's the hold up on getting it out? Get out there in garage a day, pull it out and explore!  Then throw the Green Part out in yard again for later, heh!  Tear-down is free, the fixing isn't!  Don't forget your sandwich bags and marker to put in the bolts and small assemblys to keep them together and MARK where they are from. Used to not have to do that, but older now and forget much quicker, need my notes for later.


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#10 wilberj ONLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 07:16 PM

Troy I think I know what tractor this is.  I could only turn it about 3/4 of a turn when I put it up for sale.   But when I first got it I could roll it over all the way.  I have no clue how long it sat out side before I got it and if the valves were bad before I got it.    The muffler was pointed upward when I picked the tractor up years ago.


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#11 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 08:59 PM

Well I guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow. I have a meeting in the morning, so once I get home, I'll replace the plowing tractor with the '65 in the garage, and start tearing into the engine. Like you guys said, even if I don't get to the engine for dismantle, at least I should get the engine out and keep it in the garage. That will be my goal. 

 

No worries Jerome, and please don't feel like I'm upset. These things happen, and it's no ones fault but my own for not getting it indoors. I'm still happy with the purchase, and even if the engine don't work out, I have another on back up, so no harm done.  :thumbs:


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#12 Chopperhed OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2016 - 10:06 PM

I pretty much agree with the above posts, however I would like to add a few points.

A lot of guys swear by a mixture of ATF and acetone for use as a penetrating fluid.

Pictures can save a lot of misery when it comes time to put it back together. Especially on things like carb and governor linkages.

Third, a service manual is invaluable when performing these kinds of jobs.

Edited by Chopperhed, January 21, 2016 - 10:06 PM.

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#13 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted January 22, 2016 - 09:42 AM

It's a JD, just haul it to the scrap yard  :poke:  :poke: :poke:  :poke:  :D  :D  :D  :D  



#14 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted February 28, 2016 - 09:18 PM

Today I was in the need for a tractor fix, so I decided to inspect the '65 110 a little closer to just what condition I'm dealing with here. The engine of course, was still able to move it's limited rotation, so I thought I'd pull the engine and get it ready for valve removal. To my surprise, most every nut and bolt came loose without issues, and I'm fairly certain this tractor is completely original. After removing the hood, grille, and hood supports, I quickly found a thick build up of oil and a mud wasps homes everywhere. Most of the fins on the head were nothing but mud wasps homes and spider huts. When I removed the battery from the tray, I found about 100 dead lady bugs and around 25 dead wasps. After the battery tray was removed, I found another mouse nest down inside the pedestal which seemed to have been a water trap for a number of years. 

 

Anyway, I removed the engine from the frame, and started removing the starter/generator. When I removed the starter/generator, I noticed a piece or chunk of what seemed to be a big flake of epoxy. I couldn't remove the epoxy without removing the starter/generator mounting bracket first, so I decided to remove just so I could see what this unfamiliar piece was. Then I found it! With the mounting bracket removed, I could see that the epoxy was built up thick,, and was used to cover up all of the welds that were used to patch a major hole in the block.  At some point in this tractors life, it apparently threw a rod and came out the back of the block, and somebody did a patch on it with some of the ugliest welding that I ever seen. The patch however is one thing, but to try and cover it up with thick epoxy and paint is another. I was so disappointed. 

 

So now I need to decide what I want to do with this tractor. I could pull another engine off of the shelf, install the missing pieces that the tractor requires, clean it up and make it worth something, OR take the tractor completely apart, put all of the pieces up in the garage attic, and take a chance that I'll forget about them and never see them again!!!  


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#15 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted February 28, 2016 - 09:23 PM

Sorry to hear you got an aerated block.
Was the block on the stuck one I got you OK?

Even if they are in your attic, at least the parts aren't in a landfill.
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