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No Fuel At The Injector Pump


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#16 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 10:49 AM

   Maybe I missed it but no one has mentioned that some of these engines require an electric lift pump. If your engine does not have a manual one than an electric should be used if your tank is lower than the injector pump. Even if the tank is higher I would install one to speed up the air purging process. 

   I was able to purchase a Kubota excavator for scrap price because the electric lift pump wasn't working. 


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#17 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 12:28 PM

The way this one is set up the bottom of the fuel tank is higher than the injector pump.  Will sure keep that in mind.



#18 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 02:21 PM

Actually this excavator is set up that way also. It would take forever to get the air out of the system and then it would run. With the electric pump it only took a couple of minutes and it was running. 

Another thing is make sure that the return line runs all the way back to the top of the fuel tank and is not teed into the fuel line. I had one set up this way and never could get all the air out of it. Finally got it started and just let it lope until it worked the rest of the air out on it's own.


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#19 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 04:45 PM

Most all smaller farm tractors have fuel tanks higher than the injector pump, but still use a mechanical fuel pump.  Injection pumps make awesome pressure, but lack the ability to pull fuel.  They need a little pressure to function properly.  As Chris said, electric is the way to go.  Makes the process SO much easier and faster.


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#20 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 06:24 PM

First this morning I checked the glow plugs.  Removed each one and checked with 12V and ground.  All OK.  Went back to the filter and bleed the lines and filter with both screws.  Fuel ran very free from both bleed screws.  Went to the air release at the injector pump.  Same results there, free flowing fuel.  Opened the lines at the injectors and turned the engine over till I had fuel spurting out around the nut with no air bubbles.  Tried to start it and would not go. 
Went back and bleed everything again.  Still would not run and no white smoke from the exhaust.  Tomorrow morning I am going to remove the injectors and clean them as I have a feeling that they are restricted and not spraying fuel into the cylinder.  Anyone see anything I may have missed?



#21 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 06:37 PM

If you have fuel at the right time and you have compression you should have fire in the hole. Injection timing could be a problem. Week injector pump not popping off the injectors. Stuck injectors. Low compression because of carboned up valve stems. This one I have personal experience with. Cheap to fix also.


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#22 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 06:43 PM

On the diesels that I have bled, the return line usually is what gives me trouble. I end up bleeding the return at each cylinder and at the pump last.
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#23 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 08:47 PM

Return line goes in at the very top of the tank so that part should be good.  Since this engine sat for 2+ years it is my guess that the injectors need cleaned as they are probably stuck.  Glow plugs did not work with all three in series either.  Worked good after each one was powered individually.  I am sure there is compression as there is a BIG difference in the turning speed when the decompression lever is pulled.  Will check in to an electric fuel pump also but don't want to spend any more than necessary on this engine in case it has to be replaced.



#24 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 09:05 PM

The lift pump doesn't require much in the way of pressure. I think the ones I buy are in the range of 3 to 5 psi. range.

There are some very reasonable here. I can't promote any of these but would be willing to try them. Just make sure they are diesel compatible. 

http://www.ebay.com/...ump&_sacat=6028


Edited by Cvans, January 14, 2016 - 12:22 PM.

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#25 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2016 - 10:00 PM

I read somewhere that injector pumps need around 2lbs minimum supply pressure, so the low pressure units like Chris posted about would work fine.


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#26 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2016 - 08:53 AM

The lift pump doesn't require much in the way of pressure. I think the ones I buy are in the range of 3 to 5 psi. range.

There are some very reasonable here. I can't promote any of these but would be will to try them. Just make sure they are diesel compatible. 

http://www.ebay.com/...ump&_sacat=6028

Thanks for the info.  Even at $40 it isn't to bad at all.  I looked at a couple in the $60 on up range but they were more of a transfer pump.  I just might try that $10 one and if it works can get a better one later if necessary.  First thing is going to be clean up the injectors.

 

  A good friend is a real good diesel mechanic on large farm equipment, mainly IH but will work on anything as the principal is the same. I call always call on him to if I get stuck solid.

 

Thanks for all the advise.  Have learned a lot but still have a long ways to go for sure.  I forgot about an older Ford truck with an International V8 diesel that ate glow plugs like they were candy.  Got it cheep from a neighbor to pull a 38' goose neck hay trailer.  Owned it about a year.


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#27 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2016 - 08:11 PM

Pulled the injectors today.  It didn't look like they have ever been out.  No old marks on the hex part except the new ones I put there.  Run them over to Precision Diesel, a large diesel specialty shop.  Supposed to be one of the best in this area.  They will put them back to like new condition.  Not sure what will cost but bet it won't be cheap by any means.  Tractor will sit idle till I get the injectors back.  Going to be to cold to mess with it till next week some time anyway.


Edited by chieffan, January 16, 2016 - 11:44 AM.

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#28 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2016 - 04:24 AM

Why did you pull the injectors???? I never saw a Kubota with bad injectors...poor fuel delivery yes, injectors... Nope.. Get a fuel pump on there asap.. If you can, put a clear piece of fuel tube from the top of the injector pump to return lines on injectors ... You can watch this tube then ,and see if you have air in the lines?
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#29 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2016 - 09:46 AM

Why did I pull the injectors?  This engine has sat for over 2 years. The fuel system has been bleed out twice.  No air seen the second time so done it right the first time probably.  Had plenty of fuel spray at the injectors.  Glow plugs on for full minute, turned over good for at least 10 seconds.  No smoke, fumes, odor, nothing out the exhaust.  Diesel mechanic said there should have been something.  I trust him completely as he was born and raised in his Dad's shop and now runs the place.  Has had his hands in more than a few diesel engines.  When I told the guy at Precision Diesel said he would test them first but sounded like injector problem, stuck or dirty.  Even if I end up replacing the engine I will have good injectors to put in a replacement engine.  Process of elimination.

 

Pump hasn't got here yet.  To darn cold to mess with it for several days anyway.



#30 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2016 - 11:48 AM

Why did you pull the injectors???? I never saw a Kubota with bad injectors...poor fuel delivery yes, injectors... Nope.. Get a fuel pump on there asap.. If you can, put a clear piece of fuel tube from the top of the injector pump to return lines on injectors ... You can watch this tube then ,and see if you have air in the lines?

No place to hook a plastic line at the top of the injector pump.  This a solid steel line for the outlet of the pump to the inlet side of the injectors.  The return line is all tied together with the three injectors.  Can hook on at the end but not at the injectors.

 

Will run a clear line from the outlet to the tank when I get it back together.






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