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Nipigon River bridge


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#16 CanadianHobbyFarmer ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 08:02 PM

For the heavy trucks carrying loads that were not intended to cross the border that will be a huge nightmare. Imagine having a load of cattle on up there at this time of year and not being able to move them.

 

Jim


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#17 Jazz ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 08:31 PM

We can't even haul b-trains in the US...only piddly little loads..I used to have to split my trains of lumber in Michigan and then take one trailer at a time into Indiana..  I generally gross 137,000 lbs..cant do that down in US 

Fric and Frac are on the way to fix bridge,,,

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#18 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 08:34 PM

Bolts through the pot bearing plate busted. Someone has a mistake to figure out, and they better hurry.

 

 

Do you know this for a fact?  The only reason I ask is that would be pretty unusual (I don't doubt what you say).  I used to work with these bearings (hated them) and I would think the only way that would happen is if the expansion bearing didn't have enough travel designed into it (be it a sliding bearing or a rocker type) or it's not an expansion bearing and should be.  If the bolts broke, the bridge is no longer sitting on the bearing correctly.  Holy crap that's a big problem!  Glad it's not one of my bridges.

 

What I noticed over the few years I worked with these buggers is that nobody, not even engineers, fully understand them.  I always saw them as very over designed which is not a bad thing when the whole weight of the bridge is sitting on it.  I did work with an engineer one time who was going back and forth about twenty thousanths of an inch on the base plate thinkness that was already several inches thick.  Perhaps they understand more than I realize.


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#19 DH1 ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 08:43 PM

They said on the News tonight that the cold weather caused it.   

 

Frost heaves???



#20 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 08:51 PM

Do you know this for a fact? 

 

No, just read it on tbnewswatch.com:

 

The Ontario Provincial Police closed Highway 11-17 indefinitely at the bridge around 3:05 p.m. Sunday when bolts holding the girder to the bearing on an expansion joint broke on the bridge's north side.


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#21 UncleWillie OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 08:57 PM

They said on the News tonight that the cold weather caused it.   
 
Frost heaves???

Did they forget it got cold up there when they built it.
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#22 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 08:58 PM

Don't believe I'd be standing on the bridge like that guy was. 

 

NOOOOOOO need to get that up-close and personal!!

 

I'm not an engineer, but from looking at other pics of the bridge, I'm guessing that it's not in danger of collapse, and that the major issue is with the road bed.

 

I fact, this article says that they opened it for pedestrian traffic, and the they were making arraignments for Emergency Vehicles to be able to use it using plates to bridge the gap.

 

http://www.tbnewswat..._splits_in_cold_


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#23 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 08:58 PM

Did they forget it got cold up there when they built it.

they hired an engineering firm from NC.
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#24 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 09:01 PM

No, just read it on tbnewswatch.com:

 

The Ontario Provincial Police closed Highway 11-17 indefinitely at the bridge around 3:05 p.m. Sunday when bolts holding the girder to the bearing on an expansion joint broke on the bridge's north side.

Figured you might have read that somewhere.  Not many folks know what a pot bearing is.  It sounds to me like there just wasn't enough expension designed into the bearing.  Up there the bridge would see some pretty good heat in the summer I assume and some wicked cold weather in the winter.  Much travel is required in the bearings.  Anyway you look at it, there's no easy fix here.  Probably new bearings will need to be designed and manufactured, not to mention inspections done at the other expansion points.  What a mess.  I feel for you folks who depend on this bridge.


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#25 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 09:04 PM

They said on the News tonight that the cold weather caused it.   
 
Frost heaves???


I believe the official statement was
Anise, merde!

#26 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 09:14 PM

How do you jack up a bridge?

#27 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 09:20 PM

How do you jack up a bridge?


Probably depends on where the problem is. Over water would require something different than it it was the portion over land. I'm definitely no expert here but it would take some very heavy cranes I would think.
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#28 Jazz ONLINE  

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Posted January 11, 2016 - 07:49 AM

This is artists rendering. The plan is 2x2 lane bridges.  The old bridge has been demolished. There are only 50 miles or so of 4 lane highway in Northwestern Ontario. If you were to look at a map the trans Canada is 4 laned up to cottage country in the Muskokas and a few miles beyond but the rest of the 700 miles to the Manitoba border is single lane...From Nipigon On to Shabaqua On, a distance of about 90 miles there is only one highway...

 

its a pretty bridge and that matters,,right?

https://d3v7qf8zyypu...99016467aa0.jpg


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#29 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted January 11, 2016 - 09:07 AM

How do you jack up a bridge?


There are bridge jacks and ones that will lift a million pouns are common.

I am an engineer and have built almost two dozen small bridges. When I started designing bridges in 1974 the total factor of safety was higher than what they use now. The entities that set the standards reduced the factors of safety to reduce costs. They justified it by claimimg that our materials were better and our understanding of design was better.

In the 80s and 90s I was building bridges as a shared town engineer. We are small very tight budgetted towns. I went along with the current standards for a couple of years but when the threat of NAFTA came along, I realized that there could be trouble if the heavy Canadian trucks crossed our bridges. I then went to designing for Canadian trucks and used the old factors of safety. It turned out that the cost difference was usually less than $2000 per bridge. Using Combat Engineering methods that I learned in the Army, my bridges were done fast, efficiently, and very inexpensively. The Connecticut Department of transportation usually spent 4 times as much on similar bridges. The Deputy Commissioner banned me from doing bridges. The costs then grew 3 to 4 times.

In the 2000s I worked on designing temporary structures and supports for concrete work. The company was making or buying all of its materials from US companies. One of the honchos got the bright idea to purchase a hardware item from China at a huge savings. The company and I had been arguing about the need for quality controll but they didn't see the need. I got fired for arguing about safety with my boss(the other engineers agreed with me but he was the boss). A few months later some of the new hardware from China failed and killed 3 men and injured others. The chinese steel was less than 1/6th the strength it was supposed to be.

In 1989 the World Series Earthquake struck San Francisco. The double decker bridge was severely damaged. It took 26 years to replace it. The whole process was rife with shenanigans. A Chinese company got the project and it took longer and cost alot more than was planned. When they were ready to open it, they fround defective hardware and had to delay the opening. As I recall it will cost $500 million to replace the defective hardware. I guess they saved money by not having enough inspectors and not doing proper quality assurance.

The Canadian bridge could easily be a victim of substandard hardware. I am not familiar with Canadian Bridge codes but the temperature swings should have been addressed in the design. I also have to wonder why a Canadian Engineering firm wasn't used. I've seen a few designs of buildings done down south that did not have adequate snow loads for this area.

When I started out in engineering, the supervisor spent alot of his time reviewing his engineers work to catch mistakes. Recent designs that I have seen show little evidence of review and are pretty sloppy. They just look at how much they saved by not spending time to review it. I'm very glad to be retired and out of it. Good Luck, Rick

We seem to be seeing more failures of structures under construction now than ever before.

Edited by boyscout862, January 11, 2016 - 11:12 AM.

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#30 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 11, 2016 - 09:11 AM

It'll be just "fine" when the ground thaws


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