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Why are Honda clones the thing now days


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#16 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2015 - 09:20 PM

I guess I kind of look at things differently price wise since I was brought up rebuilding Wisconsins with my Grandpa and it was normal to see stuff cost upwards of $300 to rebuild one since Wisconsins's generally were on the higher pricing scale I just thought that was the norm until I started getting into the collecting and then later the parts business, I seen parts prices were alot cheaper for Kohlers and Briggs!


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#17 Jazz ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2015 - 09:30 PM

My SS16 has a 42 year old engine which is in excellent condition,,,if it pooched would I really need a engine to last me another 42 years...



#18 propane1 ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2015 - 09:32 PM

Throw away world. Use it, then throw it in to the landfill or garbage. Same with most stuff today. Environment know it alls , should be on the manufactures cases to make products last longer, like they use to, so not as much goes to the dump. Just my opinion.

Noel
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#19 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2015 - 01:38 AM

Thirty years ago and more, the cost of labor was much less when doing something. You could have an engine rebuilt at a shop for a reasonable cost but now most shops around here can't do that. Labor costs and liability forces them to use new engines. I do my own work but there is getting to be fewer of us every year.

The clones are cheaper, easier, and quicker. For people without the ability to do the rebuild or who need of their machine in a hurry, the clones make sense. For those of us that love the old iron, we take the slow and expensive way to keep things close to original. Good Luck, Rick

Edited by boyscout862, December 31, 2015 - 01:40 AM.

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#20 CanadianHobbyFarmer OFFLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2015 - 03:06 AM

It has indeed become a throw away world. A while ago I bought a new printer, it came with two ink cartridges (one black, one colour). When it came time to replace the cartridges, the cost was more than the printer was to begin with. You really can't blame the consumer when it costs more to repair something than it does to replace it. I repowered an old walk behind tiller that my dad pulled out of the dump without a motor many years ago, with an old 6 ish hp Briggs that was also rescued from the dump.After a few years I gave up on the Briggs and replaced it with a Honda clone, ran that for years, then replaced it with another clone. I am still using the same old tiller, 3 engines later I still have less money into it than if I had bought a new one. If I had searched out an original engine for it, then had it rebuilt, I would likely have more into it than if I had bought a new one. While I have  "thrown away" two motors and working on a third one. I am still running a tiller that is older than I am.

 

Jim


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#21 Lmiller3358 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2015 - 05:43 AM

My local lawn equipment dealer told me a few years ago that Honda had let the patent run out on there engines, and others picked up on the design,,,not sure how true that is though


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#22 Greasy6020 ONLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2015 - 10:27 AM

Easy start even when cold (-10 or so Celsius) cheap ($5 an hour doesn't add up fast...) good on fuel (used the moto mower to get to work once or twice. Boss thought it was neat) actually surprisingly has good power. I've had one since July 2015 and it has survived abuse by 3 teenagers piss poor maintenance schedule and being straight pipe for a while with no issues. Only problem I've ever had is a plugged air filter. But that was my fault...

#23 toppop52 ONLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2015 - 10:47 AM

About 35 years ago, give or take, the world changed from cheaper labor, to cheaper parts. In 1972 I could get an average V8 engine rebuilt, including minor machine work, for $150-$200, call that $600-$800 in today's money. Now the machine work alone would approach that. I hate the throw away world, but I understand it.


Edited by toppop52, December 31, 2015 - 10:47 AM.

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#24 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2015 - 11:04 AM

They don't make them like they used too. And in many ways we should be glad they do not.
I bought a Troy Bilt Super Bronco 5 yrs ago. It came with a Briggs labeled Honda Clone.
Always starts on the first or second pull, much quieter than any other small engine I have owned, burns much less fuel than any other engine I have owned. Whats not to like?
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#25 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2015 - 11:21 AM

A few years ago my father-in-law had a push mower that started smoking and fouling plugs.  It was piston/rings.

 

Parts and machining (free labor from me) would have run him about $250.  A new Briggs engine about $200.  A new push mower from the box store about $125.  Into the dumpster it went.

 

I assume these Honda clones are Chinese?  I've had some experience with Chinese Honda clones in scooters.  The valves are fit so poorly that at about 600 miles they get too tight and the engine won't idle warm.  The thing starts dying at intersections and won't re-start until the engine cools.  I do a lot of valve lash on Chinese scooters at 600-1000 miles.  If they were being used on the freeway the owner probably wouldn't notice a problem until a valve was actually burned.

 

On the other hand a true Honda engine is still in spec at 25,000 miles.

 

If I had a Chinese engine in something that ran continuously under load (mowing, say) I'd stay on top of the valve lash.  You might ruin a valve before you notice symptoms.


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#26 adamjd200 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2015 - 10:43 PM

I refuse to use them, I got into these old engines/tractors because I like the old stuff, the cost to fix it is worth it to me, I also have started doing more and more of the work myself.


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#27 toomanytoys84 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2016 - 12:26 AM

I put one on a minibike I removed the govenor and had a straight throttle. I figured it would blow a rod, cause it turns ridiculous rpm now but it's been like that for two years and is always beat and it never broke yet

ExplodingFlywheel06.jpg

Be careful. The fly wheels are known to explode under high rpm use. I've read many many cases of this. It's no joke and very dangerous. Just an FYI. On the stock valve springs you are probably seeing 4500 to 5k rpms before the valves float.

I actually bought 2 predators today at harbor freight. 99 dollars each.

I also have a predator 6.5 with an arc flywheel, cam, heavy valve springs, flat top piston, billet rod, a mikuni carb and a few other mods(supporting valve train mods). I never dynoed it but ive seen dynos of engines similar build to mine putting down 15+ HP.

That thing is tough. Spins up to 9k rpm and will flat out pull like a mule the whole way up. I love it. I have it on a racing go kart frame set up for circle dirt, it was deadly on a minibike frame.

I've put these engines on many things from pressure washers, log splitters, air compressors, minibikes, go karts, and other pieces of non tractor equipment. I've never had an issue with with any of them. They usually fire up 2nd pull right after the first oil and gas. Everyone I've suggested these to for replacements love them.

I'm a huge fan of these cheap clone engines for easy replacements. As I said in another thread I would not repower and tractor with one because I feel a vintage tractor should have the proper engine.

I've seen them hold up better than those Chinese made "Kohler" engines the box stores stick on these mtd cubs

Edited by toomanytoys84, January 01, 2016 - 12:35 AM.

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#28 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2016 - 01:11 AM

I have different springs in it. And I ported the head a bit at work. But the rod is factory and I really thought it would break , it hasn't I don't care if it does. Just seems like I try to break it and it wont. I didn't know about the flywheel. It's a harbor freight motor before they were predator it's a blue one




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