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Shaw model HY8A questions

hy8a wisconsin engine high arch master

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#16 redoak3 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 02, 2016 - 12:15 PM

Wow, Cliff! What a wealth of information you have!  I can't imagine how this tractor made its way from PA to NE.  Now the search for the missing parts begins so I can get this tractor put back together and preserved!


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#17 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted January 02, 2016 - 12:17 PM

Just a few notes.  Some later tractors had combinations of earlier parts.  Shaw used everything he had that was available.  The HY8 Bell Housing has a casting number of either 8G-136-A or BG-136-A.  Could this be a Wisconsin number?  It is much better quality then most Shaw castings, and the carload of Wisconsin AH engines that I previously posted were equipped with bell housings.

 

The crankshaft on the AH/AHH engines is unique to this clutch assembly.  The enclosed picture is not great due to where this engine is stored.

 

I think this HY8A should definitely be preserved.  It will probably require the sacrifice of an HY8 to do it.  The six inch wide rims would have been equipped with 7-24 rear tires originally.  The 13 1/2 engine mount is the size for an AHH.

 

Any questions?  Feel free to ask.

 

Cliff

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  • R9 Bell Housing 1.JPG
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#18 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted January 02, 2016 - 01:11 PM

More notes.  The T84 transmission and R7 clutch combination was used in a few later tractors.  Mr. Shaw had to use up any remaining stock.  R8 with standard Shaw bell housing and T96 transmission.  R8LHE with R7 style clutch and T84 transmission.  A handful of these were produced in 1952.  I have one and am aware of one more..

 

Cliff

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#19 oldiron1 ONLINE  

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Posted January 04, 2016 - 05:37 PM

Wow! These are exactly the "CSI Murder" mystery's that I love about this hobby that keeps me looking at every rusted up piece of yard art I stumble across! 

 

Thanks, Rob



#20 redoak3 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2016 - 01:15 PM

"The crankshaft on the AH/AHH engines is unique to this clutch assembly."  From the photo it appears that the crankshaft is threaded, and possibly tapered and keyed.  Could you please clarify?  Also, is the clutch assembly a dual disc setup or a single, automotive style disc?  What diameter is the disc?

 

It appears that the front of the hood may be cast iron, and the back is sheet metal.  How does the hood attach to the tractor?



#21 Tbrooks OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2016 - 01:26 AM

"The crankshaft on the AH/AHH engines is unique to this clutch assembly."  From the photo it appears that the crankshaft is threaded, and possibly tapered and keyed.  Could you please clarify?  Also, is the clutch assembly a dual disc setup or a single, automotive style disc?  What diameter is the disc?
 
It appears that the front of the hood may be cast iron, and the back is sheet metal.  How does the hood attach to the tractor?

On the R7A's the "grill" was cast and hood was sheet metal. The grill was attached by two steel straps. Since this is a hybrid of the R7A and the HY8 I am not sure if the hood and grill would be the same as the R7A or the same as the HY8. Perhaps Cliff could tell you what is correct for your tractor. I look forward to following the progress on this one! Keep us updated.
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#22 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted January 11, 2016 - 09:10 PM

The crankshaft for the AHH in the HY8 is threaded and has a keyway as can be seen in the picture.  I do not know if it is tapered.  This engine is in a cluster of about twenty engines behind eight tractors and the picture was the best I could get at this time.  It will be sometime in the Spring when I can move the tractors and get access to get better pictures of the engine.  I do not have a flywheel or clutch for this tractor as the engine was removed from it when I got it.

 

The second HY8 that I have is the one in post 18 of the bell housing.  This HY8 has an AH engine and I assume that there is a flywheel and clutch in it, but I do not know this for sure.  This is in the back of my storage section in the barn and there are a dozen tractors in front of it.  It is another job for Spring.

 

If you look at the third picture in post 18, you will see part of a U-shape bracket bolted to the clutch housing.  You will also see the fuel tank mount which was removed from the side of the engine as received from Wisconsin and relocated here.  The rear of the hood is mounted to this bracket and it can be tilted up from the front.  All the HY8's had the big hood as shown in post 13 with the tractor with the cultivator.  I am not sure just how the front of the hood mounted, as it was not mounted on my first HY8 and is missing from the second.  The hood has a sheet metal top and front with a cast iron forehead.

 

The R9 which replaced the HY8 uses the AHH blower housing as the grille and has a very simple sheet metal hood which bolts to the rear head bolts on the AHH and covers the relocated fuel tank similar to the post 18 photo of the R8LHE hood.

 

The hood is the least of your worries.  Finding an HY8 to sacrifice is the big one.

 

Cliff


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#23 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2016 - 06:31 PM

I cleaned the garage and was able to get at the AHH engine from the HY8 today.  The outer crank diameter is straight (not tapered) and is 1.558 in diameter.  It has a 1 1/2 inch 12 thread .750 deep.  It is bored with an outer step for a lip seal and an inner step for a pilot bushing and has a woodruff key on the outside 1/4 inch wide. The outer bearing retainer is cast BG-105-D and has a cork seal and retainer pressed in.  The crankshaft has CA 47 F cast in the web.  I would guess that the flywheel for the clutch slid onto the crankshaft, was held with the woodruff key, and retained by a big nut.  I found why this engine was off the tractor when I got it.  The camshaft gear is stripped.  I just wish I had the clutch parts with it.  This engine has a steel ID tag instead of the usual aluminum tag, but it must have been sandblasted at one time and I cannot make out any ID numbers in it. There might have been a shortage of aluminum for tags during the war and this is why this one is steel.  These engines usually have the model and serial number stamped in the block, but this one is not stamped.  My other HY8 with the AH engine is missing the tag, but has the block stamped AH 84809 which would be late 1940.  A couple of the photos show the hood support brackets.

 

Cliff

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#24 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted April 26, 2016 - 08:14 PM

Pulled the HY8 engine apart  today.  The part number stamped on the crank web is CA 47F-53.  It all looks good except for the broken timing gears, two broken fins on the flywheel, and both flywheel keyways in the crankshaft wallowed out.  The flywheels must have been loose sometime in its life.  Should be no problem to fix.

 

Cliff

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#25 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted April 29, 2016 - 08:05 PM

I got the second HY8 into the shop today to see what the clutch looks like.  This is the 1940 model with the AH engine.  A caveman had been into it at one time, but it is in pretty good shape.  When you remove the pressure plate, loosen each cap screw one turn at a time until they are free.  The big nut measures 55 mm.  The closest socket I had was 2 1/4 and it worked fine.  2 3/16 would have been better and of course 55 mm is the best choice.  The caveman used a cold chisel and a sledge hammer.  A giant lock washer is behind the nut.  I do not know if this is correct.  It may have had a lock plate with a tang to fit in a hole in the flywheel.  The clutch facings had been replaced with facings from some other application as none of the preformed rivet holes were used, and new ones were drilled to match the flywheel and pressure plate holes.

 

All of the cast parts have Wisconsin part numbers and this is a very well made clutch.  The main drive gear and front bearing retainer of the T-84 transmission are unique to this clutch.  Obviously Shaw Manufacturing, Wisconsin Motors, and Warner Gear worked closely together on this design.  The country was just coming out of the depression, and all three of these companies needed work.  If WWII had not come along, many more would have been produced, and all three companies must have seen great potential in this tractor.  I have no information on parts for this.  Wisconsin used several types of clutch assembly with listed parts and all of them have letter prefixes, numerical numbers, and suffixes.  The prefix and numerals seem to describe the type of part, and the suffix identifies it. This clutch may have been only used on Shaw tractors.

 

Cliff

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