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Powersteering re visited


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#1 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2015 - 01:56 PM

Well as some know, I have a seriously modiified Ford Lgt165 with a Kubota 3 cylinder diesel shoe horned in it and loaded up with all kinds of optional goodies.
One of these options is true power steering. This morning I was out sizing up a new aux. Hydraulic pump when I noticed the slop in my front wheels.... Not a huge problem but needs to be addressed asap or it will become one. Ordered new tires for my wheels that have bearings in them. The units on it presently are bushing units and are wasted..
Anyways as I was fooling around with them I noticed that the axle pivot was starting to get a bit of slop??? Hmm hmm?? This should not be because This had been adressed just a short time ago.
I did notice that the powersteering cylinder puts unwanted stress on the entire machine especially with the blower on the nose. So, what I am going to do is install new steering cylinders! That's correct, 2 cylinders both are single port units and will push each other back, and be mounted to the axle it self and connected to the spindles. Both are 1"x3" stroke units.
This should make the steering faster and equal in both directions as far as turning speed goes. The cylinder on it now is 1.625 x 6" stroke with a .625 rod. This gives a volume differential of 1.842 cubic inches full stroke. This is noticeable.

Turns faster to the right than to the left especially when at an idle as the power steering is run off the charge pump for the hydro.

Also on the books when this is being done will be the new spin on filters ,one for the transmission( newholland wants a small fortune for the oem inline filter) and the other for the auxiliary hydraulics, of which are getting a new factory Kubota engine driven pump, for $50 I can't pass this up as it will get rid of a belt driven unit and increase system pressure to 2500 psi. This should get the job done and it is about 3-4gpm depending on rpm .
I'll take pics as I go , hopefully it will go easy?

Edited by skyrydr2, November 22, 2015 - 07:00 AM.

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#2 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2015 - 02:16 PM

This sounds like a good thread to follow!


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#3 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2015 - 03:11 PM

When using power steering the rpm must be turned up to keep undo stress off the system.  1/2 throttle or better.  Ever been around larger farm equipment with hydro's?  They run them at 2 speeds.  Idle and wide open.  Reason for that.

 

Sound like your going in the right direction replacing bushings with bearings.  Good luck with your project.


Edited by chieffan, November 21, 2015 - 03:12 PM.


#4 mrmr56 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2015 - 05:53 PM

Is this a pump that bolts to the rear of the injection pump housing and runs off of a slot in the rear of the injection camshaft? I have been wondering what kind of long term stress that would put on the gears and camshaft. I will follow along and see what happens. Thanks for keeping us informed.


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#5 TomLGT195 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2015 - 06:32 PM

I'm watching
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#6 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2015 - 07:49 PM

Is this a pump that bolts to the rear of the injection pump housing and runs off of a slot in the rear of the injection camshaft? I have been wondering what kind of long term stress that would put on the gears and camshaft. I will follow along and see what happens. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Yes , that is where it will be driven from. This is a factory Kubota set up so it should be stressless, as it is a linear drive, no real wear as the pump is small and designed for this app.
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#7 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2015 - 08:01 PM

"When using power steering the rpm must be turned up to keep undo stress off the system" really? Hmmm I must of missed something ? And I thought that the cylinder pushing on the axle at a right angle was the cause of the extra axle pivot wear? Maybe I better run it a full throttle all the time and max pressure ......And I though I had a problem with un- equalled speed from left to right because of UN equalled volume ??? Guess I'll just run it at full juice so it will feel equal, guess I don't need to bother now, thanks, I'll just run it cranked up, maybe that will also fix the worn bushings too?? What do ya think?
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#8 Eric OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2015 - 09:34 PM

Hydraulic pumps are usually designed with a certain rpm as a standard for running, variable speed units are much more expensive. Hydraulic systems like to operate at specific pressures and flow rates so I would recommend using it at your peak throttle position. Hydraulic steering systems are prone to wearing out bushings and create quite a lot of stress on things beefing up your front end when converting to power steering is a good idea as those linkages were not designed with this kind of force in mind. Good luck sounds like an interesting build I plan to follow!

#9 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted November 26, 2015 - 07:54 AM

Waiting on parts for this project. I want to get the new pump on first. Then test it's performance. I have flow dividers and priority valves that might work if the flow is more than needed. Right now the steering valve is only good for a max of 2 gpm before it starts heating things up. So running full auxiliary hydraulic flow through it is not my first option. Running the hydro charge system through it as it is now, works but at low rpm it is sluggish. Not that this is an issue, as it really isn't. Its just a minor annoyance when parking .
The charge pumps on the Eaton 11 is really just for oil cooling and anti-cavitation for the hydro pump. They do work with out them or one that is under perfoming with out hardly any notice.
The hydro pump has a relief for it, the charge pump does not! So to protect the charge pump They made it bypass internally at 500-800 psi due to design tolerances.
If you were to put too much pressure and volume to the hydro pump it would put stresses on the case and internals.
Seperating all the aux.hydraulic load off this little booger is one of my thoughts, so this new pumps performance is definitely on the mind. But not a deal breaker as the only load now on the hydro charge pump is the powersteering first then the deck lift.
The new pump will be working 3 auxiliary circiuts.
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#10 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 06:12 AM

Been busier than a one armed paper hanger!! But I did manage to get the new pump installed, aux.system filter installed and fuel line reworked to be better looking and functioning.
Boys let me tell you this, this Tractor is getting tight!! theres 50# of stuff packed into a 20# bag here !
Now it's on to the power steering mod, having a hard time finding linear tie rod ends , i need them small enough to fit the cylindet rod ends yet short enough due to a length restriction. This may need to wait a bit as its getting close to snow and this is my only snow handler...

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Edited by skyrydr2, December 06, 2015 - 06:23 AM.

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#11 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted December 11, 2015 - 04:08 AM

Got a chance to use the Tractor some yesterday with the new pump, the 3 point is now working at a proper speed ,not too fast and touchy now, and the best part is it has crazy power. I pulled some nice wood out of the woods with it full tree length. 16" + at the base 60+' long. Didn't need power steering at a few points, but that little Tractor pulled them. Neighbor was home watching me , and couldn't believe what he was seeing LOL , then again he says, I haven't stopped amazing him yet. He said ,"is there anything you can't do?" I said " most definitely! " get rich!! I say I do all this because 1, I'm too poor(cheap is more like it) to pay for it, and 2 , because I know I CAN DO IT! He smiled and walked back to his house.

Edited by skyrydr2, December 23, 2015 - 06:41 AM.

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#12 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2016 - 08:32 AM

While I was pondering my steering I was looking at the entire set up and may need to make a brand new front axle for this machine with a bit more wheelbase. I will arc the axle ends a few inches more forward , as the front wheels almost hit the mower deck now so this will help in a bunch of ways, I have larger front tires to go on it too. Also it gives me more room for the cylinders . also new heavy-duty spindles with bolt on hubs. I need to toughen up the front end for some heavy from attachments coming this spring, also need a pinch more ground clearance too.
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#13 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2016 - 09:48 AM

I have a JD front axle with 1" spindles that I have thought about adapting to the Ford. Just haven't figured out how to hook the steering link on the top of the spindle as yet. May see what it may take.






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