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3410 Hydrostatic won't move


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#1 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2011 - 12:57 AM

I was given a 3410 Simplicity with a hydrostatic transmission a few weeks ago, it belonged to an older gentleman who used to to pull a yard cart around for years. It sat for a few years unused but was being used pretty regularly up to that point.
It took a bit to get running but I had really figured that once I got the carb sorted out, it would be fine.
It runs now, but won't move, the belt is good, the pump it turning, the fluid is full, (was over 2.5qts low), and the transport lever is turned fully upward.
I can hear the pump start working or doing something when it's moved into forward or reverse but nothing happens. The parking brake is off as well. I downloaded the manual for the 3415H and that lead me nowhere. I find it hard to believe that sitting did anything serious to the trans. It was real low and there's really not much sign of leakage, at least not in any one spot, (the entire tractor is a grease ball, pretty much covered in a film of general greasy dirt but I figure that's pretty normal over all these years. There was also no puddles or drips beneath the machine where it sat, so my guess is that the lack of fluid was gradual and not some big leak.

Right now I have no movement, nothing at all, I can push this around running in either direction with no resistance and even with the wheels off the ground, nothing spins in gear.

It very much acts like the lever you turn to push the tractor is in the freewheel position but it's not. It's probably never been moved since the tractor has a rear lift bracket on it that blocks it's movement.

Any ideas?

#2 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2011 - 08:45 AM

Not extremely familiar with this machine, but if it has the Vickers unit, with the transport lever on the right rear of the differential, then some models in transport position, the lever is angled to the right to 2 o'clock, and others like on the Allis 416 I used to have, their transport position is straight up.

#3 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2011 - 09:16 AM

I am not familiar with these tractors at all but it sounds like it might have something to do with the transport or disengaged driveline. Most of the hydros do have the release for the drive on account of towing them or moving them and maybe it isn't releasing completely?

#4 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2011 - 01:50 AM

The freewheel lever is in the 12 o'clock position, it won't turn any further and the rear lift bracket stops it from moving left more than fraction of an inch.
It does indeed feel like the lever is flipped, but nothing has changed on this since it was last used. I doubt anyone would have known to flip that lever to move it and I was the one that removed it from the old guys shed. The shed had a pretty steep ramp going in so it would have had to have driven to where I found it.

#5 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2011 - 09:05 AM

The freewheel lever is in the 12 o'clock position, it won't turn any further and the rear lift bracket stops it from moving left more than fraction of an inch.


On the Allis, that is the freewheel position. Wish I could be of more help. With no resistance at all, it sure sounds to be disengaged, as even a shot hydro would make for a lot of drag. This lever totally disengages the gears in the final from the hydro, allowing extremely easy moving of the tractor.

#6 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2011 - 11:41 PM

There is little rolling resistance, if I park it in the driveway without the parking brake, it will roll away on it's own.
The lever handle is indeed pointing up. I got a look at a 3415H today that was in for repairs at a shop near here. After seeing that one and how it moves, I put mine back up on jack stands and was able to move the lever on mine to the right and back to the left.
On the 3415H that I looked at the lever had a metal tab that hooked the lever and held it in the up position, where as the one on my 3410H don't have that. Either way, freewheel on the 3415H was to the right, and it was still labeled with an instruction decal with instructions.
I can hear and feel gears engage and disengage as I flip the lever, but it still rolls very freely. If I give it a push, it keep rolling.
The differential seems ok, if I turn one wheel, the other one turns the other way with no odd noises. It also doesn't make any bad noises when pushed or when running.
I guess the next step is to either remove the trans and see what's up or find a good used trans?

What are the chances that the hydro or rear end is toast? I would think that even if the hydro was worn out there would be some sort of resistance.
I also own a 7117H, it's almost impossible to push that thing, the wheels will slide at times as well.
To give an idea of how easily it rolls, I had it parked on a stone driveway the other day, with a tarp over it and all four wheels parked on the corners of the tarp. The wind we had Sunday night moved the tractor forward and off the tarp.

What does the connection between the rear gears and the pump unit look like on these? Maybe something is just flat out broken there? How easy or hard are these to roll when not running? Should it be as hard to push as the newer 7117 with the Sunstrand hydrostat? (I believe the 3410H uses a Vickers brand rear).

#7 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2011 - 02:03 AM

I was able to find several pics of these transaxles from a few on other forums, it seems that the trans isn't nesacerily the same on the 3415H and the 3410H, I found a pic of 3410H on which the lever moves in the 12 to 2 o'clock position with 12:00 being neutral. Mine appears to be this style but also appears stuck in neutral.

#8 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2011 - 11:46 AM

I was able to find several pics of these transaxles from a few on other forums, it seems that the trans isn't nesacerily the same on the 3415H and the 3410H, I found a pic of 3410H on which the lever moves in the 12 to 2 o'clock position with 12:00 being neutral. Mine appears to be this style but also appears stuck in neutral.

Could be the shift fork has broken or somehow popped out of place. Either way, looks like a teardown to repair.

#9 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2011 - 12:40 AM

Well, after pretty much figuring that if it needs a trans, I'll just move on to another machine, I took a big hammer and beat the handle back and forth till it moved, (with the wheels off the ground and being turned). After a few hard blows it finally moved and locked in place. It seems to be fine now. What was jammed or why I'm not sure but it works. If it blows up, I'll swap out the trans or find another machine I guess. For what I use it for, it's not worth putting any real money into. It's a trailer jockey around the yard and it'll push a small snow plow in the winter if it holds up.

#10 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2011 - 11:45 PM

You may want to check for water in the rear end, it may have rusted the release lever. If it's been sitting for a long time, may time for a fluid change.

#11 yardiron OFFLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2011 - 12:04 AM

I just drained and changed the rear and transfer box oil. What ever they used was blue in color, maybe some sort of synthetic? No water that I could see though. I just refilled it with normal gear lube. I wasn't so much looking for water as I was looking for pieces.
How noisy were these drive trains when they run? Just sitting at idle this thing sounds loud. The gears, belt, and pump make more noise than does the engine with a leaky exhaust.
It's not like a bearing noise, just general gear box type noise. The Bevel Gear box is tight, no noticeable backlash, and it was full of oil. The pump seems to work well too, I used it to pull out a hedge row today with a chain, one bush at a time and it don't slip. It makes less noise when moving than it does sitting still in neutral.
What feels odd on this machine is that the speed control lever has no tension. It moves freely with no effort, it's easy to bump it either way by accident and it will fall to full speed in reverse just with it's own weight. On my 7117H the hydraulic pressure alone gives the stick some 'feel'.
Another issue is that the steering is tight, something is binding or too tight. It feels like it's in the steering column. I ran some oil down where the shaft dissapears into the dash and down low under the battery but no real change. It turns but its stiff. I greased the lower shaft and king pins but that made little difference as well.




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