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Where Does This Wire Go?


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#1 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 03:37 AM

Rewiring my 1476.  Have a new ignition switch, the diagram for the tractor and the Wisconsin diagram for the S14D with Electronic ignition module.  There is a white wire from the stator that is to go to the ignition switch according to the Wisconsin manual.  The tractor schematic does not show any wire from the switch to the ignition module, only one from terminal 'Y' to the coil.  In the run position the 'Y' terminal goes to ground.  There is nothing on either schematic that shows the connection between the two, except that white wire to the ignition switch, but which terminal?   Is this the 'Y' terminal on the switch that is to go to ground?   Don't want to hook it up wrong and blow the module.  Thanks fore any help you large frame guys can throw this way..


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#2 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 06:37 AM

Do you have a separate ignition module mounted to the shroud, or is your module under the flywheel?


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#3 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 06:46 AM

Do you have a separate ignition module mounted to the shroud, or is your module under the flywheel?

It is a separate module mounted on the left side of the shroud.  It is tied in the plug with the white that goes to the stator.

 

Ign Mod.JPG


Edited by chieffan, October 27, 2015 - 06:53 AM.


#4 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 07:54 AM

After comparing all the diagrams,  I believe the white wire in question should be connected to the Y terminal of the switch.

 

The X terminal should be grounded somewhere (not inside the switch) by a wire in the Bolens harness.

 

For your 1721409 key switch, in the RUN position, the X and Y terminals are connected together.

 

Disclaimer:  I don't know for certain about the white wire, but that's what I would do if it were mine.

 

Maybe someone else can confirm or deny !


Edited by Bruce Dorsi, October 27, 2015 - 07:55 AM.

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#5 Bud W OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 08:07 AM

This is the wiring diagram depicted here:http://gardentractor...icerepair-info/. In Figure 1, you'll see where the white wire from the ignition module goes to the ignition switch. Note that with this ignition system the - side of the coil is wired to ground and the + side (red wire) goes to the module. The white wire to the ignition switch goes to a terminal that grounds out when the switch is turned off. This type of ignition requires an ignition switch for a magneto type ignition which is different than a battery type ignition switch. 


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#6 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 08:39 AM

This is the wiring diagram depicted here:http://gardentractor...icerepair-info/. In Figure 1, you'll see where the white wire from the ignition module goes to the ignition switch. Note that with this ignition system the - side of the coil is wired to ground and the + side (red wire) goes to the module. The white wire to the ignition switch goes to a terminal that grounds out when the switch is turned off. This type of ignition requires an ignition switch for a magneto type ignition which is different than a battery type ignition switch. 

 

Here is where the confusion comes into play.

 

The #1721409 key switch was used on the 1476 tractors, and on the next year's 1477 tractors.  ,,,,They were both equipped with Wisconsin S-14D's having solid-state ignition.

 

With these switches, none of the terminals are connected to each other, or to ground, in the OFF position.

 

I don't know if these tractors were equipped with the module under the flywheel originally, or if they came equipped with the outside-mounted module. 


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#7 Bud W OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 09:07 AM

That's why they show the ignition switch as a toggle switch in that drawing. I have a 1256 that uses the same ignition and it originally had a separate "kill"  (push)switch to shut the engine off in addition to the key switch (that would not shut it off).


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#8 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 10:04 AM

If the white wire in question is connected to the 'Y' terminal and the '-'  side of the coil is also connected to the 'Y' terminal, both the white wire and the '-' side of the coil would go to ground in the RUN and START switch position.  In the OFF position, no connection to the 'Y' terminal which should kill the engine. 

 

The diagram in the Wisconsin engine manual shows the - side of the coil going to ground all the time, at a shroud screw.  The white wire in question is shown going to the ignition switch.  Since white is a ground wire 99% of the time, I would say you guys are right in breaking the ground of the ignition module (white wire in question) would kill the engine.

 

From what I can resource this engine came with the shroud mounted ignition module and later engines had the two piece coil under the flywheel.

 

Thanks much for helping clear up this real cloudy situation.  Will keep you posted on what works.  Hopefully will have the engine running later today.  Haven't checked for spark yet? ? ? :thank_you:    :reading_the_manual:   



#9 Bud W OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 11:07 AM

The way that ignition works, grounding the white wire will kill the spark (just like magneto ignition) only this uses the ignition coil and the pulse from the module (that isn't present when the white wire is grounded).



#10 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 11:48 AM

The way that ignition works, grounding the white wire will kill the spark (just like magneto ignition) only this uses the ignition coil and the pulse from the module (that isn't present when the white wire is grounded).

In other word, if that white wire is grounded, there will be no spark.  Exactly the situation I have.  How can the coil work if there is no 12V power to it ? ?  Get its power from the stator through the ignition module?

 

If I remove the white wire form the switch which grounds it when in RUN and START, where does it go ? ?

 

Is there a way to test the ignition module short of putting on a known good one?


Edited by chieffan, October 27, 2015 - 12:48 PM.


#11 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 01:15 PM

In looking things over again, there is no indication there was ever another switch or push button of any kind on the dash.  Only throttle, Ignition switch, light switch and choke, plus a cigarette lighter below the choke.

 

The black wire from the 'Y' terminal block at the switch has a factory installed ring and is the right length to go to the '--' on the coil.    Blk Ring.JPG   Correct per wiring diagram.

 

The white wire in question also has a factory ring connector.  I do not believe it ever went to the ignition switch or other switch.   The red wire from the ignition module reaches the '+' of the coil OK  and it too has a factory installed ring connector.  The factory connectors have a heat shrink type insulation over the wire and crimped part of the terminal ring.

 

Wht Ring.JPG

 

The Stater checked out OK but when I find the instruction on how to do it will check it again.  At this point I am not going from memory as to many variables have come forth.  Also need to check the ignition module.  Seen some place the method to check both but cannot locate it right off.

 

 



#12 Bud W OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 01:27 PM

If you notice in the wiring diagram, none of the wires goes to the true ignition switch only to the push pull switch! The coil gets its power from the module (red wire to coil +, black wire from coil - to ground). When you tie the white wire to ground, it kills the spark. When you un-ground it you should get spark. If you put a 12 volt test light on the coil + while cranking, it should blink.


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#13 Bud W OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 01:51 PM

The black wire from the 'Y' terminal block at the switch has a factory installed ring and is the right length to go to the '--' on the coil.    post-62695-0-88870900-1445969142_thumb.j   Correct per wiring diagram.

 

Try disconnecting your black wire from the coil- and tie a wire from the coil - to ground. and check for spark (with the white wire disconnected from everything).


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#14 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 03:03 PM

White wire is loose and hanging free.  Black from switch is free.  Run a jumper from ' --' on the coil to ground at the battery.  Ground from test light at neg battery.  Held the point of the test light on the '+' coil terminal.  When I first turned the switch on I got a quick flask on the test light.  After that nothing.  Going to try cleaning up the connector from the module to the coil.  All 3 points and sockets look a little dirty.  I have a known good coil off another machine I will try too.  Across the two coil terminals it shows no resistance.  No resistance from + to ground, so the coil is not open but could be shorted out.



#15 ClassicBolens OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 03:54 PM

On the original factory supplied YJ-69 ignition modules used on the Bolens 1455, 1476 and 1477, the white wire was not there at all. The factory replacement YJ-69 modules came with the white wire so that it could be connected to a separate on/off kill switch, which was recommended by Wisconsin, to prevent any back feed or pulse from the original ignition switch to the module which could potentially short it out.

 

Your options here would be to isolate the white wire and not use it at all, relying only on the tractor ignition switch to kill the engine (black wire from Y terminal on ignition switch to - side of coil). This option is usually ok, as long as your ignition switch is in excellent working condition (or new) and all wiring is clean and tight. 

 

Or, add a secondary kill switch. White wire to one side, other side to ground.

 

Good Luck!


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