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Engine died out under load after about 15-20 minutes


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#1 ODN OFFLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 03:15 PM

My new problem with my MF-14 is that after about 15-20 minutes under load, the engine seems to have overheated and died out.  It was especially bad with the mower running trying to climb a small low grade.  It sputtered down to a stall and almost sounded like it was puffing air.  When I lifted the hood, the engine was hot and smoking.  Oil level is fine, no dirt blocking the cooling fins or shroud, but gas was low, so I topped up the tank.  Started easily, but wouldn't accept any load without dying out.

 

Pulled it back into the garage, pulled the spark plug, and it's sooty (not wet).  Previous owner said he replaced the carb and had it adjusted by a small engine mechanic.  Until today, it started well, no evidence of misfire, no backfire ... ran perfectly.  Today, it died under load after 15-20 minutes.

 

Anybody have similar experiences?  Need to troubleshoot, and hoping to learn from your experiences.  If I'm facing engine rebuild, need to know that, too.  I intended to rebuild the engine - just hadn't intended on doing that before next spring!

 

Thanks in advance.


Edited by ODN, October 13, 2015 - 06:20 AM.


#2 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 03:28 PM

Check that the cooling air is flowing well again. Then check the timing. The timing being off can cause over heating. The timing being off is somethimes caused by the flywheel shear key partially shearing. Get it running and adjust the carb by the book. A lean carb can cause excessive heating. Check that a full flow is getting to the carb. It is also a good time to change the oil. A last step would be to add Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas. It helps the engine run cooler, cleans the combustion chamber, and frees up valves and piston rings. Good Luck, Rick 


Edited by boyscout862, October 12, 2015 - 03:30 PM.

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#3 bbuckler OFFLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 03:50 PM

Check that the cooling air is flowing well again. Then check the timing. The timing being off can cause over heating. The timing being off is somethimes caused by the flywheel shear key partially shearing. Get it running and adjust the carb by the book. A lean carb can cause excessive heating. Check that a full flow is getting to the carb. It is also a good time to change the oil. A last step would be to add Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas. It helps the engine run cooler, cleans the combustion chamber, and frees up valves and piston rings. Good Luck, Rick 

Isn't it also a sign of a blown head gasket.


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#4 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 04:03 PM

As said above are you sure the cooling fins are clear, under the shroud?

Does the engine have the 2 screens in place on the flywheel around the driveshaft? If not grass will accumulate and cause overheating.

This happened to me on my MF16 grass cutter, ended up blowing the engine.


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#5 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 04:22 PM

Isn't it also a sign of a blown head gasket.

Yes it is a possibility. I've only had a few head gaskets blow and each time they were noisy. Good Luck, Rick


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#6 bbuckler OFFLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 04:31 PM

Yes it is a possibility. I've only had a few head gaskets blow and each time they were noisy. Good Luck, Rick

I didn't notice mine was blown until I went to start it and a puff of smoke came from around the head.


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#7 ODN OFFLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 05:21 PM

Updates:

 

1)  It’s not a load/over heat issue at this point.  The engine is completely cool now – difficult to start, and when it starts, it’s weak and has a totally different sound than normal – like a breathy/pop sound.  I’m paying strict attention to what others have said here about a potential head gasket problem.  See attached photo – I noticed this on the cooling fins.  Is that pointing me in the head gasket direction? 

 

IMG_20151012_173710.jpg

 

2)  When I took the air filter cover off - there was a bit of fuel (I assume) on the bottom (maybe a half teaspoon); also, the filter looks like it's been cleaned but not replaced in a long time.  Have one on order. 

 

3)  Choke operates normally – have reset carb jets to factory settings using the K321 service manual, although that’s not going to help, necessarily, if there’s a more serious issue.

 

4)  I don't know that points or timing have been addressed ever by the previous owner, but I can attend to that. 

 

5)  Might valve clearances be the issue?  I can take a guess that valves have never been serviced.

 

6)  DH1, I do have shroud screens.  I’ve blown all that out with a compressor, appears to be clean.


Edited by ODN, October 12, 2015 - 05:22 PM.

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#8 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 05:26 PM

Ok, how about ignition, any loose wires, bad connections, does the coil get really hot when it cuts out?

As far as the head gasket goes try tightening the head bolts, re torque to specs.


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#9 propane1 ONLINE  

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Posted October 12, 2015 - 07:25 PM

Points plunger maybe stuck. Maybe points are loose. Set points to spec. Twenty thousands. If still not good try advancing timing. This has helped my ford lgt 145 and my John Deere 140. Noel
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#10 ODN OFFLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2015 - 06:42 PM

Update:  finally got a chance to work on my tractor today.  The first thing I set out to do was remove the head, do a visual, and re-torque the head.  Keep in mind, this tractor came my way only about a month ago, and I have to go on the history the previous owner provided.

 

As it turns out, the head has a small hole blown in it (detonation).  Previous owner had mentioned he had the carburettor replaced and set up by a small engine mechanic, and that the started and battery were new within the past year, but I can't verify that.  He claims he uses only premium grade gasoline, and synthetic #30 oil.

 

Visual inspection of the piston and valves appears normal, with a small amount of evenly distributed carbon across valves and pistons. Cylinder walls look good.  Engine has the STD cylinder, so it's never been rebuilt. 

 

I've read of one guy who replaced the head on his K321, only to have another detonation occur within hours after the engine resumed operation.  I'd appreciate all suggestions, as I want to ensure I cover all the bases before I re-start the engine.  I'm considering not only a new head, but a new carb, a new fuel pump, new points, coil, condenser, check valve-tappet clearance - the works. 

 

Am I missing anything?  Has anybody had this issue and found an effective way to deal with it?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Derek

Attached Thumbnails

  • Head 1.jpg
  • Head 2.jpg

Edited by ODN, October 26, 2015 - 05:34 AM.

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#11 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2015 - 06:56 PM

That's something you don't see everyday. Hole in the head. ???

When you get another one on it, (I do have a spare) I'd check the timing and fuel mixture for sure.

 

Massey 14's do not need a fuel pump to run, neither of my 2  MF16;s have a fuel pump and I have no issues with them starving for fuel.


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#12 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted October 25, 2015 - 06:18 AM

That is odd! Looking at the bottom side of the head, that hole almost looks like something got in there and did that. The edges look very smooth.


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#13 pianotuner OFFLINE  

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Posted October 25, 2015 - 02:03 PM

That is odd! Looking at the bottom side of the head, that hole almost looks like something got in there and did that. The edges look very smooth.

When I saw it, I thought air filter machine screw.


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#14 ODN OFFLINE  

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Posted October 26, 2015 - 05:33 AM

Thanks, guys.  I thought it looked like something may have shot through the head, too.  No scoring on the piston walls or hole in the piston, though I suppose it could have come up through the intake valve.  Hopefully he didn't try to plug an earlier hole in the head just to get the engine to run.  The air filter base was fastened to the carb with only 2 screws with washers (top and left), but I believe there should be 3 screws with washers.  Can't tell you if there were 3 screws there when I got the tractor.  Screws weren't loose when I removed them.  The carb was something the previous owner says he replaced himself.  

I cleaned off the cylinder top, and what looked like a STD stamp is a 0.10, so in the very least the piston has been replaced and the cylinder block bored. The cylinder sleeve is smooth with no appearance of scoring, and valves appear to seat well and tight at TDC, although I haven't done an air pressure test on them.  Given more than a few repairs were done with haywire and binder twine, I am concerned with how the work to the engine may have been done. The engine did have an audible slight knock, which is one of the reasons why I intended to do a full rebuild it in the spring.  I'm concerned maybe the crank was never turned and the piston rod is not snug on the crank shaft.  Plenty of potential sources of the problem, so tearing it down might give me the most peace of mind.

 

Derek


Edited by ODN, October 26, 2015 - 05:36 AM.

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#15 propane1 ONLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2015 - 12:29 PM

Say, how did you get my head out of my shop !!!!! It seems I had the same trouble years ago with my Mf14. Noel

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