Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

k241 smokes


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 newcaseowner OFFLINE  

newcaseowner
  • Member
  • Member No: 74336
  • 22 Thanks
  • 21 posts

Posted October 08, 2015 - 09:46 PM

my 1973 case 220 with a k241 that smokes bad.

 

so today i pulled the engine to strip it down to go to the macine shop.

 

when i pulled the head i found some things i have never seen in an engine before.

 

it has been rebuilt at some time i bought it used from a guy i know for $100.00.

 

the thing is the piston is clean with a film of clean oil on it but the valves are crusty with carbon.

 

the head is the same way also there is no ridge what so ever in the cylinder.

 

the piston has 5 to 8 thousands play by the looks of it.

 

do you guy think a honing and rings or ???.

 

a few pics of what i am talking about.

Attached Thumbnails

  • k241-0.jpg
  • k241-1.jpg
  • k241-2.jpg
  • k241-3.jpg
  • k241-4.jpg


#2 classic ONLINE  

classic
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 52970
  • 3,449 Thanks
  • 1,601 posts
  • Location: New York

Posted October 09, 2015 - 01:09 AM

That cylinder has had water sitting in it at some point, and you can see that the piston is worn near the top on the side towards the valves. This is where I've noticed pistons and cylinders wear the most. In my opinion, I would have that engine bored, replace the piston assembly, and check the rod to crank journal clearance. It's worth putting the time in and ending up with a strong engine that will last if you need it to.
  • Trav1s, boyscout862, WNYTractorTinkerer and 1 other said thanks

#3 dblover OFFLINE  

dblover
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 73516
  • 266 Thanks
  • 160 posts
  • Location: Lancaster,PA

Posted October 09, 2015 - 07:10 AM

Do you do a compression/leak down test on it before pulling it apart?  They would tell a bit about what needs done - rings vs worn out valve guides.



#4 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

WNYTractorTinkerer

    Tinker Master

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 10789
  • 8,305 Thanks
  • 4,658 posts
  • Location: Avon, NY

Posted October 09, 2015 - 07:45 AM

Just looking @ the piston's top it is worn down perpendicular to the crankshaft. Also the oil getting past the rings tells me it's most likely bore time..  The piston is rocking in the bore as it goes up and down (the worn top) and the rings are losing seal thus your oil passes by causing (blue) smoking.  There is also scoring on the cylinder wall to support my diagnosis via the world wide web here..  Leak test it if you want but it will concur..  The true way to find out is to tear it down and measure the piston and cylinder bore and compare it to the tolerances in the Kohler BIBLE

 

Good Luck and post up more pictures and your progress as you work on it!!   :wewantpics:


  • Trav1s and classic have said thanks

#5 EricFromPa ONLINE  

EricFromPa

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2135
  • 2,293 Thanks
  • 2,329 posts
  • Location: Bedford County Pa.

Posted October 09, 2015 - 11:54 AM

That piston is junk and your rings are either worn out or seized fast to the piston where the biggest gap is.The bore doesn't look that awfully bad.I would pull it apart and take some measurements.

 

If it's within tolerances for a .020 piston I would hone it and measure bore again if still within tolerance install a new .020 over piston and ring set.

 

Boring it to .030 over would be the best way to clean it up.Either way you are going to want to buy a new piston and ring set.



#6 newcaseowner OFFLINE  

newcaseowner
  • Member
  • Member No: 74336
  • 22 Thanks
  • 21 posts

Posted October 09, 2015 - 09:09 PM

i found a factory kohler repair shop they looked at and said i should hone it and put new rings on the piston.

he also said i could change the piston if i want but he did not think it needs a new one.

the mechanic also said the valves and valve guides are good.

 

so i am planing on a new piston and rings anyway.

i will give a light honing just enough to clean the surface as the cylinder has no ridge at all.

 

the mechanic thiks the second ring was put on upside down .

so instead of scraping the oil down the cylinder it is pumping it to the top of the piston as it was rebuilt with a .020 over piston.

 

even tho it burns oil it does run strong and starts easily the starter would roll it over 1 to 3 times and it was running.

 

i will take my time fixing it i will get some inside micrometers and check the bore and then i will make sure the ring end gaps are proper and that the rings are on the right way.

 

i will take pics for you guys so you can see what is going on with it.


  • classic said thank you

#7 newcaseowner OFFLINE  

newcaseowner
  • Member
  • Member No: 74336
  • 22 Thanks
  • 21 posts

Posted October 11, 2015 - 01:15 PM

ok guys  i have found i need a new conrod,piston and rings.

 

i could reuse the rod as it has no wear but has some very fine groves in it but not any in the crank.

the rings are trash  the oil ring gap is 0.150 at 1.5 inches down in the bore the compresion ring is at 0.85 at about 1 inch down.

the lubricator ring was snaped in to two peices.

the con rod has crud all over it also .

and the wrist pin has got two rings of crud on it.

 

their are some stains on the crank that i am sure will polish out with some crocus cloth ( cloth with red jewlers rouge on it ).

if used on steel it will make the steel look like it is crome plated.

 

i am going to have the cly miced at the macine shop to see if honeing is all it needs i hope.

 

now for some pics .

Attached Thumbnails

  • rod big end.jpg
  • crud on conrod.jpg
  • rust cyl bottom.jpg
  • ring gaps.jpg
  • rusty crank.jpg
  • wrist pin.jpg
  • rust on cam gear.jpg

Edited by newcaseowner, October 11, 2015 - 01:24 PM.

  • Oldford and classic have said thanks

#8 Oldford OFFLINE  

Oldford
  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 50409
  • 802 Thanks
  • 572 posts
  • Location: n.e.

Posted October 29, 2015 - 10:48 PM

Sounds like you got better info here from guys looking at pics, than from the Kohler guy in person! 

Are you going with aftermarket or factory parts?  good luck with the rebuild



#9 classic ONLINE  

classic
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 52970
  • 3,449 Thanks
  • 1,601 posts
  • Location: New York

Posted October 30, 2015 - 12:51 AM

Glad to see that you are putting the effort in to make it right. You aren't looking for a highly mirror bright finish on the crank journal. Below is an NOS Briggs crankshaft, and you will see that there are machine marks left intentionally on the journal. These machine marks hold oil and help lubricate the rod and journal. One of the best investments that I made this past year was to buy a dial bore gauge for checking the condition of the bore. I zero the gauge in the bottom of the bore where the piston doesn't ride. I then run the gauge up, down, and around the bore to check for wear and out of round. This is a quick way to tell if you should bore the block. I just measured the bore of a Briggs model 233461 block. The bore showed only .001 wear in one area, but the piston shows some wear, and the ring gap on the old oil ring was over .065. I slid a new standard oil ring down the bore and the ring gap was only .010. The crankshaft journal was only worn by .0005. I will rebuild this engine with a new piston, rings, and connecting rod. The original connecting rod is fine, but I picked up two new rods for 20 bucks a while back, so I might as well install a new one. Below is a pic of the block with the old and new oil rings installed in the bore. You can see how much the old ring has worn.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20151030_013215-1.jpg
  • 20151029_142946.jpg

Edited by classic, October 30, 2015 - 12:54 AM.

  • Oldford said thank you

#10 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

WNYTractorTinkerer

    Tinker Master

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 10789
  • 8,305 Thanks
  • 4,658 posts
  • Location: Avon, NY

Posted October 30, 2015 - 05:24 AM

Get some muriatic acid to clean all any aluminum off the crank journal as it looks galled from what I see then go to the auto parts store to get some plasti-gage to measure your crank-to-rod clearance to be sure it's within specs..  Looks like some water got in the crankcase for sure..  Clean all of the rust out of the thing that you can get..  

 

A new piston would be in the shopping list if it were me as well if I saw the wear and condition of the inside of that case..  Clean it up and keep the pictures coming!!    :good_job:


Edited by WNYTractorTinkerer, October 30, 2015 - 05:25 AM.


#11 newcaseowner OFFLINE  

newcaseowner
  • Member
  • Member No: 74336
  • 22 Thanks
  • 21 posts

Posted March 12, 2016 - 09:04 PM

well it has been awhile so this what i am doing as soon as i have the cash winter sucks up my cash ( propane to heat house ).

 

the cyl is 3.271 or .020 over no matter where i mesure it it is staight and round.  so i will hone it to .030 over and put in a new after market piston and rings and a new con rod.

 

i know honing will take forever but i have the time and it wont cost $75.00 to have it done for me.

 

i plan on honing it until it has a clearance .0065 i figure by the time the rings seat it will have worn the cyl out to the .007 clearance that it needs to be for the piston fit .

 

well thats all untill the next time.



#12 newcaseowner OFFLINE  

newcaseowner
  • Member
  • Member No: 74336
  • 22 Thanks
  • 21 posts

Posted June 10, 2016 - 10:04 AM

well it is June 10th it has been awhile since my last post

 

i have had the crank turned down to 1.480"  when it was miked at the machine shop it was 1.486.

 

so now it has a .020 under rod and a .030 over piston and all new gaskets.

 

i painted the block flat black and all of the sheet metal and covers gloss black.

 

it is back in the frame with the finishing touches left the ignition, starter , new fuel lines, new battery , new points and spark plug.


  • olcowhand, Trav1s and cmn135 have said thanks

#13 newcaseowner OFFLINE  

newcaseowner
  • Member
  • Member No: 74336
  • 22 Thanks
  • 21 posts

Posted June 12, 2016 - 03:24 PM

hey guys it runs real good now ..    k241 no smoke!.  just need to make a few adjustments on the throttle cable and the governor.

 

 

there are no funny noises that i can hear just throaty roar from the cheap muffler it would not be much louder with a straight pipe .

 

 

i can say the neighbors know the i have it running now..   :dancingbanana:






Top