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loader project

johnson loader snapper 1650

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#1 cchap45 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2015 - 08:51 AM

I just picked up another tractor, a Gilson / Wards that came equipped with a Johnson Workhorse loader, wheel weights,  a ballast box and a snowblower. My plan is to put the loader on one of my 1650's as they are quite a bit bigger than the Gilson. I just picked it up last night so I couldn't get any pics,  will get some asap.   I have some questions for the experts;

 

1. does the pump on the 1650 have enough volume and pressure to run the loader or should I use the remote pump on the loader?

 

2. if i can use the tractor hydraulics can i use the valves on the tractor to operate the loader?  use the mid hyd. valve with float for raising- lowering 2nd valve to dump the bucket?

 

3. will i need to beef up the front end, if so will a 1655 axle bolt in or should i just make new spindles?

 

thanks in advance

 

 



#2 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2015 - 09:16 AM

Your 1650, is that a CC or a Snapper? The tractors' hydraulics probably won't have the reservoir to work all those cylinders. You will be best off fixing up the Wards with the FEL on it and using it that way. You can move it over but, the time you will spend adapting can go on and on. There always seems to be interferrences after it is together. Besides, its always nice to add another GT. Good Luck, Rick



#3 cchap45 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2015 - 01:37 PM

it is a Snapper 1650.  the wards is not really an option as it is really close to being used up.  tired motor blowing smoke, noisy gearbox missing a gear, missing components on the steering assembly, .  not to mention its not built nearly as heavy duty.. think stamped steel  vs 1/4" steel frame and over all size



#4 Chopperhed OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2015 - 04:44 PM

Definitely go with the auxiliary hydraulics. If it's anything like my Ford LGT165 (peerless 2501, with Eaton 11 Hydro), the hydro doesn't have the capacity for a full loader setup. A simple automotive steering pump delivers better pressure and flow for the hydraulics than the charge pump on an Eaton 11


Edited by Chopperhed, September 29, 2015 - 04:46 PM.

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#5 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2015 - 05:09 PM

Yes, use a dedicated pump for sure!

#6 limebuzz ONLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2015 - 06:34 PM

Definitely go with the auxiliary hydraulics. If it's anything like my Ford LGT165 (peerless 2501, with Eaton 11 Hydro), the hydro doesn't have the capacity for a full loader setup. A simple automotive steering pump delivers better pressure and flow for the hydraulics than the charge pump on an Eaton 11

Thanks, I was always wondering if a power steering pump would run a loader. I have one off an old Ranger that I scrapped just incase. 


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#7 Chopperhed OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2015 - 09:08 PM

Thanks, I was always wondering if a power steering pump would run a loader. I have one off an old Ranger that I scrapped just incase. 

For your application, I'd go with something off of a pickup or 4x4. I'm using a Caravan unit on the dozer, and it does well for that, Larger/longer cylinders will require more. I also added a reservoir to the caravan pump to give it the storage capacity I needed.


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#8 FirefyterEmt OFFLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2015 - 06:27 AM

If it helps, looking for a pump like the one in my 95 Jeep Wrangler might help... that has a remotely mounted reservoir which would allow you to use larger tanks to store the fluid.


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#9 toppop52 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2015 - 06:35 AM

Those big hydros will run a loader, that's how my Powermax came from the factory, it limits your pressure a bit and probably slows it down some, but unless you have a commercial project it will do the job. Having said that, a dedicated pump is better overall, but for ease the hydro pump will work ok.



#10 cchap45 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 07, 2015 - 12:03 PM

Here is the Wards with the loader

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#11 cchap45 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 07, 2015 - 12:15 PM

side by side with the 1650

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#12 cchap45 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 07, 2015 - 12:17 PM

rear view

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#13 cchap45 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 26, 2015 - 08:29 AM

Made a little progress last week, got the loader off of the Wards and sent the tractor down the road to a new home. I was surprised, less than a week on CL and had several people interested in the Wards. Ended up going to a guy just a couple miles away.


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#14 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2015 - 04:03 AM

A power steering pump will run a loader, but there are a couple of things that need to be taken into consideration, First, p/s pumps have a built in flow control that limits flow to about 2 gpm on most cars and light trucks. Trucks with hydraulic clutches and power steering have pumps that flow about twice as much. Second, the flow control can be modified for more flow, BUT, there is no way to reduce the flow if you need to for precision lifts. The pump flows the same from idle to WOT.

 

Using any hydro's charge pump leaves you at the mercy of the hydro's recharge requirements. The hydro gets first call on charge pump flow. I'd be pulling out what hair I have left if I had to put up with the slow lift times that I've read for loaders connected to the TT K92s in the JD X7xx tractors.

 

The best option is a 0.36-0.39 cu-in displacement pump run 1:1 with the engine for a loader with 2" bore lifting cylinders. You can run WOT when you go to the neighbour's for refreshment, 2/3 throttle for regular loader work and idle when you really don't want speed for lifting out of tight quarters.


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#15 toppop52 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2015 - 07:37 AM

My current 4041 uses the hydro for the loader, it's a bit slower than my MF 1855 with Johnson Workhorse and separate pump, but reall plenty fast for normal work. The only time it's noticeable is when rolling and lifting, then the bucket is slow, but that's not a big deal.


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