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Car battery in a GT


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#16 HDWildBill ONLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 09:13 AM

When snowplowing, I need to stop every 20 to 30 minutes to let my battery charge up because the generator can't handle the lights, wiper, and electric defroster. I could put in a bigger battery but then I would have to put a battery charger on the tractor at the end of work. After several hours of fighting the snow, I fall asleep when I come in. The battery would overcharge. The break is good for me to warm up too. Good Luck, Rick

 

Rick, Use a battery tender.  You can connect a pig tail to the battery that hangs out past the hood.  When you are done and put the tractor away just simply plug it into the tender then plug the tender in and forget about it.  All my MC's have one on them and my Craftsman also has one for the wench on it.  The tender shuts completely off when it is done charging.


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#17 Phluphy OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 09:54 AM

Won't hurt a thing, but you may want to add a car alternator to keep it charging that beastly battery.

Good idea and entertained adding an alternator but the ol' gray matter isn't as sharp as it used to be and could not figure out how to wire one much less stuff it into the limited space.


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#18 jimt1971 ONLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 09:55 AM

I have been running a group 27 truck battery in my snow plow tractor for the past two years and I have not had a problem. I run a winch for lifting the plow, three 35 watt lights, 6 led flashing lights, and an led strobe light bar on top and I have not had a problem


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#19 Phluphy OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 09:59 AM

I have always been told dont jump a gt off a car battery it will kill the starter. A 600 cca battery will deliver double what a 300 will. That will kill the brushes and really heat up the starter

Thanks but, as others have stated, the starter isn't going to draw any more than it demands.  My belief is it will actually extend the starter life by having it not work that hard on start up.  Am concerned about brushes though.


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#20 Grumpy OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 10:19 AM

The last John Deeres I've had came with Car battery 400, LX 277, and X300.


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#21 Phluphy OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 10:20 AM

I always like to use the highest CCA rating I can fit in the area for the battery.  Most of the engine charging units won't keep up with the draw on frequent starts let along driving a winch.

That has been a major concern also...the demand placed on the built in alternator to keep the battery charged plus, albeit I try to remember to turn the engine off when using the winch, the increased demand the winch draws.

 

My winch on my Sears likes the battery too. I run a 350 amp in mine, does alright. Probably I have is it pulls so many amps, it heats up my regulator and fries it. I am on my 5th regulator in 3 yrs. plan to maybe add another battery for winch and I already have car alternator mount built and use it for a while.

Hmm, didn't know this thing had a regulator on it.  Where is it located on a 18 hp B&S opposed twin?  Believe it's still working, at least the amp gauge indicates charging.



#22 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 10:31 AM

If your machine looks like my Craftsman Gt18 (Caterpillar painted) I can set you right up (minus the alternator I may have burnt the regulator on screwing around recently). I had the alternator mounted to an existing bolt hole on the dash tower (requires removing a mount bolt from the dash tower) and then tied off to the right hand foot rest with a metal strap. Then it was belt driven using another pulley stacked on top of the drive pulley on the front of the engine (Briggs opposed). All you need is a 37 amp delco alternator and to bypass (unplug) the under the flywheel alternator. I can measure belt length because the belt I used was crappy but functional enough.

Since I yanked the engine I would part with the pulley I stacked and the alternator mounting hardwares I made.

Edited by wvbuzzmaster, September 22, 2015 - 10:33 AM.

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#23 Phluphy OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 10:32 AM

Big thanks to all responses and appreciate no mention of the word "no".  Thinking about putting the larger battery on the transporter itself and a pigtail, if you will, to the existing wires from the tractor system, with the idea being the charging system will take care of both batteries...to the extent it can, or, would that be a useless concept?

It was only recently discovered the transporter can literally pull 5" diameter pines up out of the ground, but it does cause the winch to work considerably harder. Nice not having piddly short stumps sticking up and saves saw chains as well.


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#24 tater195 ONLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 10:36 AM

I think the meaning behind what I was told is if the starter had an extra drag on it ( bad bearings in the starter, stuck pto, stiff hydro pump) the car battery has a high enough CCA to force the starter to turn and will finish it off.


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#25 Phluphy OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 10:46 AM

I think the meaning behind what I was told is if the starter had an extra drag on it ( bad bearings in the starter, stuck pto, stiff hydro pump) the car battery has a high enough CCA to force the starter to turn and will finish it off.

Yes, additional load etc. and high amps would kill a starter quick.  A dragging starter is fairly easy to notice though.  Not wise to force feed it.



#26 larrybl OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 01:09 PM

The largest (GT) battery I have found is the Huskey (Excide) 420cca which is what I have been replaceing my 220cca Ever Starts with when they fail. For the Craftsman GT, I beleave you will find a dual diode rectifer (not regulator) under the dash. Trace the single wire from the engine stator, you should find it. The Starter, lamps, wench, etc will only pull the amps required, as stated, the battery dosn't "push" amps. One caviot though, If the starter is dragging it will pull more amps than it is designed for and will fail. The same goes for the winch. If using a proper (ie. not defective) charger, you should not be experiencing an over charge condition. An example would be like a cross country trip in a car, the battery would be contuniously chargeing during the trip, not an issue.


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#27 daniel_b OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 03:03 PM

regular auto "starting" battery versus true "deep-cycle" battery
i've noticed this question asked-stated-discussed in a number of threads on a lot of different forum sites, maybe i can shed a bit-o-light here,
yes, you CAN interchange them SOMEWHAT - however - as with most things, IF they truly were the SAME, there would have been no reason to do the research - developement - manufacturing to market the two DIFFERENT types to begin with!!!

from this thread:
http://forum.solar-e...tarting-battery
the "pros-cons-well, it-worked" were pretty well said, the complete thread is a good read in that a real-world person can understand the language, no "gob-i-lee-gook" type "fur-inner-speekin" degree required
a couple things in particular do stand out and deserve a bit more attention:



Cariboocoot - June 2012 
...none of that changes the manufacturers' recommendations of cycling a deep cycle a few times to reach its maximum capacity and cycling it regularly thereafter, or giving it the Absorb stage or occasionally equalizing it as needed (assuming it isn't sealed). 
That is to say, the charging profile of a vehicle's system does not match the recommended charging profile for deep cycle batteries...


Blackcherry04 - March 2014
...The only issue you run into with a deep cycle is they are self limiting on the amount of current available. 
A starting battery is designed for high current of short duration. 
A deep cycle, a lower current release over a long period of time. 
On a V8 where the amp demand is high ( 300 + amps ) you'll definitely see a lower cranking speed and voltage sag...


Cariboocoot - March 2014
And here's me living in a place with -35C Winter temps ... for the job just because it happens to be able to do it.

(the whole post)
 

Cariboocoot - March 2014
...You can see the difference in the ratings: true deep cycle batteries don't have cold cranking Amps associated with them and automotive batteries don't give you Amp hours capacity.


the thread even touches on ups, wheel-chair, elec-vehicles, and so on...

also, from here:
http://www.batteries...cle-battery-faq
 

...What are the differences between a starting and deep cycle battery?
Generally speaking there are two different types of lead acid battery, Starting and Deep Cycle. If a starting battery is routinely deep cycled (discharged below 20%-50% of max capacity) it will generally fail after 30-150 cycles. The same starting battery will last for thousands of cycles if it is just used normally (2% - 5% discharge).

A starting battery is generally designed to start some form of internal combustion engine (car, truck, boat etc). In a starting battery you will find more lead plates, thinner and often made of a lead "sponge" similar looking to a foam sponge. This sort of arrangement means that the plates have much more surface are in the solution than a Deep Cycle battery and allow them to draw larger currents much quicker than a Deep Cycle battery.

A deep cycle battery on the other hand has much thicker plates and they are solid, not sponge. These thicker plates have less surface area and thus less of the instant power that a starting battery needs. They are designed to be discharged down to 20% of their maximum charge repetitively. The thicker lead plates allow for this as they are much sturdier than their sponge counterparts.

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) is an indicator of the amount of current a battery can deliver for 30 seconds at zero degrees Fahrenheit without dropping below a specified cutoff voltage (normally 10.5 volts). The cranking amps a battery can produce changes with temperature. The warmer it is the more Cranking Amps a battery will produce.

You can use a Deep Cycle battery as a starting battery provided that you take into account the lower CCA of a Deep Cycle battery. As a rule of thumb it's a good idea to upsize the battery by about 20% to deliver the same amount of cranking amps from a deep cycle battery. Also the self discharge rate of Sealed batteries is a lot less than flooded lead acid types.

How long will my battery last?
How long a battery will last depends hugely upon the way it is used and how well the battery is maintained. Both overcharging and undercharging will have serious adverse effects on the lifespan of a deep cycle battery.

In particular you can seriously shorten the lifespan of a battery if it is used in a deep cycle application that it was not designed for. An example of this would if you were to use an automotive starting battery as a deep cycle battery.

General expectations for batteries if deep cycled (these are just approximate guidelines):
Starting battery (Automotive battery etc) : 3-13 months
Marine Battery : 1-6 years
AGM Deep cycle: 4-7 years
Gel Cell Deep Cycle: 2-5 years
Flooded Lead Acid Deep Cycle Battery (L16-RE etc): 4-8 years

 

 


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#28 daniel_b OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 03:09 PM

briggs did come out with an upgrade higher out-put alternator-flywheel when everyone started using the electric pto units for the deck engage, may be an option for some

another way to do things for those of you who snow-plow,
you usually need a bit more weight on the rear anyway to counter-balance the weight of the plow on the front,
so don't even worry about adding an auto alternator for winch usage, 
(if you read my dissertation-links i posted above), 
this application is the ideal use for a deep-cycle, 
just mount the battery in the back, top of your weight-box, where-ever...
run the wires-wiring from battery to switch-controller to winch, done!!!
depending upon the size of the battery, be 'bout time for a break when the battery is down
when finished plowing, hook-up the deep-cycle to your charger, be ready for the next use...


on my '80 sears gt, i removed the oem plastic spill-tray, 
used a storage container lid from walmart that was about an inch high and just the right length-x-width as my new spill-tray, and put in a group 42, 620 cca auto battery, 
fit like it was made for it! and no re-arranging of anything was needed

on the ol' murray gt, figured how to put a pair of u1 @ 390 cca in where the oem was only one,
used a couple later model drop-in style battery holders because i had to straddle the steering shaft
wired in parallel so i have ~780 cca, so plenty of reserve, even before i changed-out the flywheel...

just a couple ides...   :D


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#29 JBRamsey OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 08:02 PM

Yes, you can use a car battery if it fits. If you have room stick a Group 31 truck battery in it!! As most everyone has stated 12 volts is 12 volts. A bigger battery doesn't hurt the starter. What kills starting batteries is lack of use or repeated deep discharges. Sitting for months on end is horrible for them and shortens the life dramatically. That's why the batteries last longer in the equipment you use on a regular basis when compared to one that sits for weeks and months at a time between uses.

The large sudden draw that's required to engage and turn the starter is why people that start a car to see of the battery is good and then immediately shut it off don't understand why it won't turn over the next time. They didn't let the engine run long enough to allow the battery to recover. Also some alternators don't produce full rated amperage until they are at or near full rpm..

Your alternator doesn't keep the battery charged because you are using more amps than the alternator can produce. If you add another battery you provide more reserve for running things but you aren't going to charge any faster. Dual batteries have to be wired correctly to charge properly, too. if you go the two battery route, make sure you wire them in parallel or you will end up with 24 volts.

Keeping the battery as close to the starter as possible helps tremendously. It reduces the resistance from the battery cables.

Good luck.
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#30 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 08:43 PM

Thanks but, as others have stated, the starter isn't going to draw any more than it demands.  My belief is it will actually extend the starter life by having it not work that hard on start up.  Am concerned about brushes though.

no need to be  any more worried about starter brushes than with a regular gt battery. In fact the higher RESERVE may help extend the life, as trying to get that last crank out of it when the battery is about flat is the hardest on an electric motor.


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