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1964 LandLord 314 Project. [Complete]

1964 simplicity landlord 314 transmission leak

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109 replies to this topic

#31 classic ONLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2015 - 11:40 AM

I highly doubt that your piston rings are broken. The cylinder wears the most on these engines, where the rings and top of the piston contact the cylinder wall at the bottom of the stroke. The crankshaft is forcing the piston hard against the cylinder wall in this area as the crank forces the piston back up. This also wears away the top and side of the piston that face the intake and exhaust valves. The large gap that you are seeing tells me that your cylinder is worn out of round and that the top side of your piston is worn out of round. This is just normal wear for an engine with some hours on it. Here are some pics of a Briggs model 23 that I honed oversize with a Lisle hone with 5" long stones. This hone is rigid, so it will straighten out the bore as you hone. The shiny spots in the cylinder are the low spots which eventually disappeared as I honed the cylinder. A dial bore gauge will tell the story on your cylinder wear. I picked up an import gauge and it worked fine for me. It showed that my cylinder was over .005 out of round and tapered. If you plan on using one of these old machines on a regular basis for years, it's worth boring the engine and making sure the connecting rod and crankshaft rod journal clearances are in spec.

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Edited by classic, October 24, 2015 - 11:40 AM.

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#32 classic ONLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2015 - 12:22 PM

Here is a pic of the wear that you typically see on a piston that has seen moderate use. This piston came from a 1970 Briggs model 233461, type #0040-01 This is the same piston assembly and rod as used in the Briggs model 23D, type #s 0129 and 0208. The piston is part number 294676 and the rod is part number298400. So, the large gap you are seeing is caused by the wear on the piston and cylinder wall area closest to the valves.

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Edited by classic, October 24, 2015 - 12:26 PM.

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#33 wbakunis OFFLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2015 - 12:47 PM

I highly doubt that your piston rings are broken. The cylinder wears the most on these engines, where the rings and top of the piston contact the cylinder wall at the bottom of the stroke. The crankshaft is forcing the piston hard against the cylinder wall in this area as the crank forces the piston back up. This also wears away the top and side of the piston that face the intake and exhaust valves. The large gap that you are seeing tells me that your cylinder is worn out of round and that the top side of your piston is worn out of round. This is just normal wear for an engine with some hours on it. Here are some pics of a Briggs model 23 that I honed oversize with a Lisle hone with 5" long stones. This hone is rigid, so it will straighten out the bore as you hone. The shiny spots in the cylinder are the low spots which eventually disappeared as I honed the cylinder. A dial bore gauge will tell the story on your cylinder wear. I picked up an import gauge and it worked fine for me. It showed that my cylinder was over .005 out of round and tapered. If you plan on using one of these old machines on a regular basis for years, it's worth boring the engine and making sure the connecting rod and crankshaft rod journal clearances are in spec.

 

Here is a pic of the wear that you typically see on a piston that has seen moderate use. This piston came from a 1970 Briggs model 233461, type #0040-01 This is the same piston assembly and rod as used in the Briggs model 23D, type #s 0129 and 0208. The piston is part number 294676 and the rod is part number298400. So, the large gap you are seeing is caused by the wear on the piston and cylinder wall area closest to the valves.

Thanks for replying. Im glad you don't think the rings are broken but im now worried about the bore & piston. I was planning on using this quite a bit for plowing snow and mowing the lawn from time to time. there is no obvious damage to the piston or walls of the cylinder. Im also getting perfect compression. Could I run the tractor until next year or should I fix this asap?

Either later today or tomorrow ill tear the motor down and take some more pictures. I think all ill ruin is the seal for the front cover. I can just get some gasket maker like I used for the rear end.


Edited by wbakunis, October 24, 2015 - 01:02 PM.

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#34 classic ONLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2015 - 01:14 PM

You're welcome. If your compression is fine and the engine isn't knocking, I wouldn't tear the engine down. Just clean it up, put the head back on and put it to use. Like you said, you can plan a rebuild at a later date if you do not want to do it right now. You can't just use gasket maker to install the end covers on the engine block. The gasket set comes with one gasket for the big end cover, and a few different gaskets of various thicknesses for the small end cover. This allows you to set your crankshaft end play which should be between .002 and .008. If there is no end play, the engine will seize up. If there is too much end play the engine may knock.
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#35 wbakunis OFFLINE  

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Posted November 08, 2015 - 08:26 PM

Got some good and bad news. Good News is that the tractor is back together completely and running. Engine compression is 120psi. The new seals for the hydraulic work perfectly and no oil is leaking. The rear end seal is still holding up fine and moving perfectly. I started doing tests with painting parts and fixing the seat. 

Bad news is that the engine is burning lots of oil. After adding the correct two quarts of oil, you can clearly see it heavily smoking. Its' a very dark blue smoke. Not fluffy white smoke. Smells like burnt plastic. Ill record a video of it soon. The carburetor float is not closing after turning off the tractor and fuel is pouring out. There is no seat in the carb. I'm very surprised that the engine manual shows no seat. Ill have to get a needle seat kit. I also need a new spark plug.


Current parts list:

Spark plug
Needle & seat kit
Seat connector / cushion (2157094SM)
 


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#36 classic ONLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2015 - 11:17 AM

I bought an old generator one time and it ran great and didn't smoke when the seller started it. When I got it home, I changed the oil and there was less than a quart of oil in it. I started it after changing the oil and it smoked constantly. I pulled the piston out and it was badly galled up and looks like it was seized in the bore at some point. Luckily the bore is fine and nothing but the piston and rings show damage. A new piston, rings, and gaskets are all it needed. The generator was cheap, so it was worth repairing it. The bore in your engine looks worn from years of use and I'm betting that your piston ring end gap is excessive. You will need to measure the bore to get a good idea on how bad it's worn. You will want to check your valves and valve guides for wear, measure the crank journal and rod to see if the clearance is still in spec, and make sure your crank case breather is working. It's the only way to guarantee that the engine will stay together.

Edited by classic, November 09, 2015 - 11:19 AM.

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#37 wbakunis OFFLINE  

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Posted November 11, 2015 - 02:55 PM

Spent the morning with my grandfather getting the snowplow hooked up. I only have a sears plow so we had to make a custom frame for it. Puts a smile on my face seeing this work. 




EDIT: I need to buy a new carburetor. Briggs & Stratton 23D - 293950. How trustworthy are these on Ebay? $20 seems way too cheap and the $50 ones look like poor quality.

http://www.ebay.com/...&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

Apparently, Briggs & Stratton 390323 carburetor is the same as the 293950 carbs. There is a whole load more of these 390323 carbs and they're much cheaper.

http://www.amazon.co...&qid=1447273475

 

http://www.ebay.com/...&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1


Edited by wbakunis, November 11, 2015 - 03:26 PM.


#38 wbakunis OFFLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2015 - 02:59 PM

Does anyone know how much power the alternator / generator puts out? The only info I can find is that it is a Delco Remy 1945744. I would like to hook up a couple headlights and a running light.



#39 637Yeoman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2015 - 03:34 PM

I have a few parts for a 314. Not many, though.

Why does everyone call 64 landlord 314s? 

i have a 64 also. looking for a hood and grill.

Thanks, luke


Edited by 637Yeoman, November 27, 2015 - 03:35 PM.


#40 wbakunis OFFLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2015 - 04:13 PM

Why does everyone call 64 landlord 314s? 

i have a 64 also. looking for a hood and grill.

Thanks, luke

Not sure why to be honest. There are two models of the 64 Landlord (308 MS & 314 MS/ES). Maybe there was more 314 models than 308s?



#41 637Yeoman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2015 - 04:16 PM

Not sure why to be honest. There are two models of the 64 Landlord (308 MS & 314 MS/ES). Maybe there was more 314 models than 30 8s?

Ok i have another question.

Whats the difference ond what does 308 ms and 314 ms/es mean?

thanks, luke



#42 wbakunis OFFLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2015 - 04:24 PM

Ok i have another question.

Whats the difference ond what does 308 ms and 314 ms/es mean?

thanks, luke

The only difference is how you started it. The 308 had to be hand started by using a rope on the cup under the seat. The 314 has electric and manual start. Both had the same motors, color scheme, etc. 

MS = Manual Start
ES = Electric Start.

Price list i found.

pricelist-0.png

http://www.simpletra.../1964_(pg1).htm


Edited by wbakunis, November 27, 2015 - 04:27 PM.

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#43 637Yeoman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2015 - 04:27 PM

The only difference is how you started it. The 308 had to be hand started by using a rope on the cup under the seat. The 314 has electric and manual start. Both had the same motors, color scheme, etc. 

MS = Manual Start
ES = Electric Start.

That makes sensce.

Mine is a 314 then. Do you know how mant 308's were made. ive never seen a 64 landlord without electric start.

Thanks, Luke



#44 wbakunis OFFLINE  

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Posted November 27, 2015 - 07:42 PM

That makes sensce.

Mine is a 314 then. Do you know how mant 308's were made. ive never seen a 64 landlord without electric start.

Thanks, Luke

I haven't been able to find production counts. I would like to know as well. I believe the 308 and 314 were both only produced one year. I couldn't imagine more than 50k were made. 


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#45 637Yeoman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 28, 2015 - 04:27 PM

I haven't been able to find production counts. I would like to know as well. I believe the 308 and 314 were both only produced one year. I couldn't imagine more than 50k were made. 

The 64 Landlord Black dash (314/308's) Were made only in 1964.

They then switched to a 10 hp in 1965 because the model 19 they used in the 64's vibrated too much and was less balanced than the 10 hp Briggs they put on the 101's. They only made  Landlord 101's in 65 then changed it to the 2010 in 66.







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