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#46 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2015 - 08:29 AM

  What would be the logical reason for not soldering it?  Use and high heat gun and solder it quick.  Just stick the wire through the loop and don't wrap it so it can be removed easily.  It is not always heat that does damage, it is the amount of time that heat is applied and I think that is Briggs thinking on that subject.  If it is not soldered it is a loose connection, and loose connections build resistance.  Resistance causes failure.

 

 

I think B&S is concerned about either too much solder wicking into the plug wire making it brittle and prone to breakage caused by vibration, or over-heating the coil during soldering.

 

Soldering also means de-soldering when the wire needs replacement.

 

However, B&S recommends tinning the wire before crimping it on to the terminal.

 

I have seen many engines where the connection was soldered without any problems, and I believe many came from the factory soldered..


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#47 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2015 - 09:31 AM

I have read and was told that on a Briggs engine, the spark should jump a gap of 0.166" .  Briggs has special tool to check that, usually with the engine running.  I do not have that tool so I improvised.    GAP.JPG

 

I checked with a meter to make sure I had a good ground at the alligator clip, which I did.  Gap was exactly 0.166" as close as these old eyes with tri's could determine with a calipers.  I pulled the rope several times.  No spark.

 

I put the plug on the plug wire and laid the plug on a tin lid, Jumped the plug to a good ground.  Put a tiny bit of gas in the lid and pulled the rope.  Had a fire right off the bat.

 

Conclusion:

There is enough fire to operate the module.  Not enough to fire the plug consistently under pressure.  I called my Briggs Tech and he agreed with me all the way.  He possibly found a coil at the factory for $119.  I am thinking of going another route and will start a new post for that to keep things separate a little bit.

 

Convert A Model B Briggs to 12 V Coil Ignition  will be the post title.

 

Thanks a bunch for all the help on this.  I learned a lot about these old engines, and hope some others gained a bit also.


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#48 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2015 - 11:23 AM

A Briggs engine of that age would be a cast iron block, right?

I once got an early 70s Sears SS 15 that had a 320000 series cast iron Briggs on it. Basicallly got it the same way youre wanting to get rid of your machine. In this case he had put a OE Briggs Magnetron onto this engine, and then it would not run, where it had before he installed the Magnetron. After getting disgusted with this machine and trying "everything" (returned Magnetron as defective a couple times among his attempts to fix)  he found out that for it to work on a cast iron Briggs made before (I forget the exact year) 1980-81ish, the polarity on the flywheel magnets had to be reversed.  He gave me the tractor instead.
I switched it back to points and condenser and it ran fine.  That was about  20 years ago, I had that machine for 4-5 years and sold it, and it still ran as of about 6 monts ago. (I have not seen the guy that bought it from me, since then.)

I have seen those ATOM modules advertised before, but have never encountered one, never tried one.  so IDK if maybe you might be dealing with the same sort of situation here?


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#49 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2015 - 12:07 PM

A Briggs engine of that age would be a cast iron block, right?

I once got an early 70s Sears SS 15 that had a 320000 series cast iron Briggs on it.


The fact that the block is made of cast iron is about the only thing those 2 engines share in common. The B uses a totally different ignition. The Atom and Nova modules will work but the coil has to be good.
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#50 LPBolens OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2015 - 11:02 PM

If you look at this source for old manuals, there is no mention made of a BR6. They only list a BR. Then they list a type number of 5 digits. Perhaps a BR6 has a type number of 6 digits?

 

http://www.briggsand.../B-Domestic.pdf

I think for the B&S engines the "R6" means that it has a factory-installed gear reduction attached, with a 6:1 ratio.

 

Edit: I responded before reading the whole thread. Ooops! Sorry to be redundant.


Edited by LPBolens, September 19, 2015 - 11:13 PM.

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#51 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 20, 2015 - 03:02 AM

I am convinced that it is a week coil that is causing the problem.  First time I have run into that.  Have found bad or dead coil but this week one is a first for me.  Need to pick up a ballast resistor and will be set to go with a coil ignition.  Will us a small motorcycle battery for power source which should run it for a long time.  Just MIGHT get this beast running again after all.  But it is still for sale or trade.  Will list it with photos as soon as it is running.



#52 diesel nut ONLINE  

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Posted September 20, 2015 - 12:34 PM

Just read the whole thread and i have a Briggs Z that did the exact same thing yours is doing.  Never could figure it out because I have the Briggs spark tester and it jumped the gap every time.  I ran fine for about 2 hours total until I ran it out of gas and then couldn't get it to start.  Did just about everything you did plus I borrowed a magneto charger from an uncle and had the pieces machined so I could recharge the flywheel and it still didn't help.  Didn't do the electronic conversion on mine though.  Be interested to see if putting a coil ignition on yours works as I might do it to mine if it does.               Stewart


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#53 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2015 - 01:34 PM

SUCCESS ! :thumbs:  :peace: 

 

I got the engine running like it is supposed to.  Using a motorcycle battery, 12 V coil, ballast resistor, original points and condenser.  Started on second pull, let it warm up good, adjusted the carb a couple times,and it runs like a new engine.  Nice idle, quick throttle and good high rpm.  This is how I ended up doing it:

 

#1.  Removed the flywheel and un-soldered the plug wire and removed it. 

#2   Removed the engine coil wire from the points and taped the end.  Check the points for proper gap and set them at  .020".

#3   Run a wire through the hole for the plug wire,  put an end on and fastened it to the points connection.

#4   Mounted the coil and Ballast resistor on the engine, the battery was strapped down to the frame of the machine.

#5   Ground wire from the batt. to the engine.  "+"  from batt. to the on off switch.  From the switch to the resistor, then to the "+" side of the coil.  Attached the wire from the points to the "-"  side of the coil.

#6   Plug wire from the 12V coil to the spark plug.

 

This hook up should work with about any engine with conventional points that has a bad coil at the flywheel.  None of the original coil connections are  used.  If you have to go out and buy all the components you may as well by the replacement coil as there won't be much difference in cost, depending on what a new coil would cost you.  In my case the coil is $118 plus shipping.  I had everything except the ballast resister which I got at the local NAPA and paid a premium for it.  Hope this can help somebody else out with a similar problem.  Thank much to all you guys that made comments and suggestions and provided some guidance.  I was on the right track but in my frame of mind fighting this thing I need some support and got it.  Thanks again.  Rog


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#54 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2015 - 01:45 PM

Thanks for the follow up. Glad it worked.


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#55 tater195 ONLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2015 - 01:50 PM

confused as to why you needed a ballast resistor for a 12v coil running off of a 12v battery????



#56 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2015 - 08:18 PM

confused as to why you needed a ballast resistor for a 12v coil running off of a 12v battery????

 

All 12 volt systems with a point and condenser ignition require a ballast resistor or a resistor wire to reduce the voltage to about six volts to keep the points from arcing and frying the contacts.  A six volt system does not have this problem, so no resistor is required.

 

Cliff



#57 tater195 ONLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2015 - 09:39 PM

...but a 12v coil should handle 12v???
I did a search after posting that. All I found was coverting a 6v tractor to 12v. They recomended around 3.5 ohms coil and ballast resistor combined. I never checked a 12v coil , so I dont know if you need one or not

#58 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2015 - 09:44 PM

Glad you got it going Roger!

If you ever get to missing all the cranking you did on that engine just remove the plug wire from the spark plug and crank away.  :poke:   :smilewink:   it'll be just like old times.....



#59 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 05:34 AM

confused as to why you needed a ballast resistor for a 12v coil running off of a 12v battery????

 

From most of the vehicles ( tractors ,cars )  that I had with 12v systems and resisters or resistor wire . I believe what the factory was trying to do was making the coil bigger ( I'm sure there's a better word ) then the points could handle at 12 v for an extended length of time but OK at lower voltages . So during starting the coil would get full 12 volts and even then most times the battery will drop lower anyway  , then in the run position it will get power through the resister . My Ford 3400 is wired like that and GM in the sixties would work that way too . I'm  sure others . Hope I answered it for you , Al 


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#60 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 05:46 AM

All very well said.  The resistor is not to limit the power to the coil.  It is to reduce the current to the points to keep them from arcing and burning up, like was also stated earlier. There is also a coil that has the resistance built in.  I did not have that coil so had to go with the ballast resistor.  When converting old tractors, etc. from 6V to 12 V system, a ballast resistor had to be used for the same purpose, and were placed in line with the + lead to the coil.  I questioned this resistor also til I was told and then the light bulb lit.  D-a-a-a.

 

Regardless of the who's and why's - it works fine the way it is set up.


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