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#31 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 05:01 PM

Drained the gas tank just to prove to myself there was no water in there.  Fresh gas and back together with everything.  Another dozen pulls with starting fluid sprayed in the air intake at the carb.  Nothing but once got a little puff of moisture out the air intake.  Probably some of the excess starting fluid.  Getting no where fast on this thing.  I have tried everything I can thing of an many things you guys have come up with and still no results.  This $%#(@&# motor simply does not want to start.  I would trade this thing for a deck and snow blower for a medium frame so fast it isn't funny.  At this point it is nothing but a expensive pile of bright green scrap iron.



#32 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 05:03 PM

How does one know when the timing is right on one of these.  There is no timing marks that I know of on the flywheel or any place else.  I guess it fires when it want to fire.

 

NOT USING THE POINTS OR CONDENSER.  HAS AN ELECTRONIC IGNITION MODULE THAT ELIMINATES THE POINTS AND CONDENSER.  i JUST LEFT THE POINTS IN JUST IN CASE i HAD TO GO BACK TO THEM.

I've been searching for more info on the BR6. All I've found says if the flywheel key is in good condition and the flywheel is properly installed and you don't have points, it has to be properly timed. Now as far as the valves are concerned - Do you know if your type # is 5 or 6 digits? The valve clearance can make a difference.


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#33 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 05:06 PM

If you have a good spark, it makes no sense why starting fluid won't pop.



#34 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 05:07 PM

B&S Model B engines (all versions such as B, BH, BHL, BHLP, BHP, BHR, BL, BLP, BLR, BM, BMG, BP, & BR) were manufactured 1934-1948.

 

Model BR is equipped with a gear reduction.

 

There was a 4:1 gear reduction, and a 6:1 gear reduction.

 

Model BR6 is equipped with a 6:1 reduction.

 

As far as B&S referring to "5 Digits" or "6 Digits", they are identifying the engine by its TYPE number.  ....Five digit Type numbers were earlier production, while six digit Type numbers were later production.

 

The B&S Type number should be on the plate where you found the Model BR6 number. 

 

You can date the year of manufacture from its Serial number.

 

You are correct that the spark plug wire should be soldered to the magneto coil terminal.  ,,,They were that way from the factory.

 

I am not familiar with the electronic module you are using, so I can't say if a condenser is needed or not.


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#35 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 05:28 PM

While trying to learn about the ATOM Electronic module, I found this info:

 

"There's 3 resistors, 1 capacitor, 2 transistors in them. On the motor that you have a weak spark try reversing the polarity of the module, also the condenser needs removing as its not required."


Edited by Bruce Dorsi, September 18, 2015 - 05:28 PM.

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#36 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 05:35 PM

B&S Model B engines (all versions such as B, BH, BHL, BHLP, BHP, BHR, BL, BLP, BLR, BM, BMG, BP, & BR) were manufactured 1934-1948.

 

Model BR is equipped with a gear reduction.

 

There was a 4:1 gear reduction, and a 6:1 gear reduction.

 

Model BR6 is equipped with a 6:1 reduction.

 

As far as B&S referring to "5 Digits" or "6 Digits", they are identifying the engine by its TYPE number.  ....Five digit Type numbers were earlier production, while six digit Type numbers were later production.

 

The B&S Type number should be on the plate where you found the Model BR6 number. 

 

You can date the year of manufacture from its Serial number.

 

You are correct that the spark plug wire should be soldered to the magneto coil terminal.  ,,,They were that way from the factory.

 

I am not familiar with the electronic module you are using, so I can't say if a condenser is needed or not.

OK.  In that case a BR6 is the later, or 6 digit type number.  That it is 300316.  The valves checked right at .007 for the intake and .009 for the exhaust.  That is right in the ball park of where they should be from what I read in the manual.

 

I have never used a condenser with these modules and in their instructions the show using only the wire from the coil.  I have no idea how they work but they do.  I really like the idea of not having to mess with adjusting those darn points, or replacing them which is worse.



#37 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 05:37 PM

While trying to learn about the ATOM Electronic module, I found this info:

 

"There's 3 resistors, 1 capacitor, 2 transistors in them. On the motor that you have a weak spark try reversing the polarity of the module, also the condenser needs removing as its not required."

The capacitor is removed.  Will try switching the two wires from the module.  Right now the blue is grounded and the white is connected to the coil wire.



#38 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 07:10 PM

Is there any chance that the small hole between the spark plug and the combustion chamber is plugged with carbon and the fuel mixture is not reaching the plug?

I have never seen this happen, but there are lots of things I have never seen.  John Rex in Chelmsford Massachusetts recharged the flywheel for me.  I machined a set of adapters to fit the flywheel magnets to his charger.  I do not remember what kind of steel I used for the adapters, but whatever it was, it worked perfectly.

 

Cliff


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#39 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 07:45 PM

If you have a good spark, it makes no sense why starting fluid won't pop.

I agree with you 100%.  It acts like the intake tube is plugged solid,- - -till I flood it.  The spark is good enough I darn sure don't want to hold the end of the wire in one hand an grab the muffler with the other when someone is pulling the rope !



#40 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 07:49 PM

Is there any chance that the small hole between the spark plug and the combustion chamber is plugged with carbon and the fuel mixture is not reaching the plug?

I have never seen this happen, but there are lots of things I have never seen.  John Rex in Chelmsford Massachusetts recharged the flywheel for me.  I machined a set of adapters to fit the flywheel magnets to his charger.  I do not remember what kind of steel I used for the adapters, but whatever it was, it worked perfectly.

 

Cliff

The spark plug will get wet if I leave the choke on and keep pulling to start it. So I am sure the port between the plug and burn chamber is open.  About the only thing I haven't done is take the head off.  Don't know what good it will do except open it up for a good cleaning but nothing else has worked so far.



#41 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 07:55 PM

When trying to start this thing, I wrap the rope around the sheave  3 times.  I pull it against the compression and wrap again if necessary.  With a spark checker on the plug and plug installed, I get at least 2 and on occasion 3 flashes with each pull of the rope.  Is there any way the checker can show fire when in fact there is no fire at the plug ? ?   The plug is a new Autolite.  Just a passing thought of a possibility.

 

If I had a repair shop that knew anything about these old Briggs I would let them find the problem.  The last 10 hp cast iron Briggs I had that wouldn't' start and brought to them, they said the coil was on backwards, charged me $220 bucks.  I hauled it 30 miles home and a week later went to use it and it would not start again.  I jerked it off and put a 9 HP late model Briggs on and used the machine.  The next spring I got it up on a bench and anchored it down.  Removed the coil and mounted it the way it was originally, checked the gap, the points and plug and all that stuff.  Put in fresh gas and gave it two pulls, first one with full choke, second one with half choke and it sat there and ran like a new engine.  I did get $220 worth of credit but won't take another old engine back to them unless I can stand right there and watch every move he makes.  I can to that engine on a wood spliter today, turn on the gas, wrap the rope, full choke and one or tow pulls and it will be running.  Why won't this on do that ? ? ?  Gr-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r


Edited by chieffan, September 18, 2015 - 08:06 PM.


#42 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 08:33 PM

This probably off the subject, maybe. I have had the experience of flooding an engine, after which the plug was no good. Replacing it with a new plug put it back in business. I have also read this, although I don't know why it is so.



#43 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 08:34 PM

Back under the flywheel AGAIN.  Everything looked good to me.  Took some pics, maybe you guys can see something that I don't.  Only change I made was the wire to the plug was not soldered to the coil terminal.  It was feed through the loop and folded back over and pinched tight.  I trimmed the end of the wire and tined it.  Cleaned the loop on the coil and soldered the plug wire to the coil terminal.  It now has a solid connection.

 

Check the photos where the wire from the coil to the points (originally) is leaving the coil between two thin plates of the coil.  The ground wire from the coil is laying across those same two plates.  It is not a dead short between the lower ground wire from the coil and that output wire to the points (originally).  Meter shows .5 ohm resistance.

 

Your .5 ohm resistance of the primary circuit is on the low side. These coils start getting iffy when they get down around .7 ohms. A good one will usually be in the 1-1.4 range.

 

Also, Briggs said not to solder the coil wire.

 

Another thought I had was that at one time there was a bulletin about increasing the hole size in the head to the plug but don't remember the specifics.



#44 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 09:18 PM

This probably off the subject, maybe. I have had the experience of flooding an engine, after which the plug was no good. Replacing it with a new plug put it back in business. I have also read this, although I don't know why it is so.

A lot of time this is true, especially with Champion plugs. I have also burned them dry with a lighter, then cleaned them and put them back to work, but not Champion.  The plug that is in it now has not been flooded or ran.  It is anew Autolite plug.

 

First thing tomorrow will try switching the wires around on the ignition module.  If that don't work going to pull the head and see what it looks like inside.


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#45 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 09:30 PM

 

Back under the flywheel AGAIN.  Everything looked good to me.  Took some pics, maybe you guys can see something that I don't.  Only change I made was the wire to the plug was not soldered to the coil terminal.  It was feed through the loop and folded back over and pinched tight.  I trimmed the end of the wire and tined it.  Cleaned the loop on the coil and soldered the plug wire to the coil terminal.  It now has a solid connection.

 

Check the photos where the wire from the coil to the points (originally) is leaving the coil between two thin plates of the coil.  The ground wire from the coil is laying across those same two plates.  It is not a dead short between the lower ground wire from the coil and that output wire to the points (originally).  Meter shows .5 ohm resistance.

 

Your .5 ohm resistance of the primary circuit is on the low side. These coils start getting iffy when they get down around .7 ohms. A good one will usually be in the 1-1.4 range.

 

Also, Briggs said not to solder the coil wire.

 

Another thought I had was that at one time there was a bulletin about increasing the hole size in the head to the plug but don't remember the specifics.

 

I had no idea where they were to be resistance wise.  Don't like the sounds of that as a coil is like buying the whole machine over again just to get the engine to fire.

 

I saw that, but have heard it both ways.  What would be the logical reason for not soldering it?  Use and high heat gun and solder it quick.  Just stick the wire through the loop and don't wrap it so it can be removed easily.  It is not always heat that does damage, it is the amount of time that heat is applied and I think that is Briggs thinking on that subject.  If it is not soldered it is a loose connection, and loose connections build resistance.  Resistance causes failure.

 

Will see what is under the head when it come off tomorrow as I know what is going to happen when I reverse the wires to the module - NO spark at all.  I can get the info for that hole modification for a friend who is a Briggs master Tech. but he is a parts man and shop manager.  He don't work on them any more.






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