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About to Uload A Gardener


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#1 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 08:31 AM

I an getting real tired of fighting this BR 6 on my Gardener.  Last winter when I got it, I went through it, cleaned everything up, new points, plug, condenser, carb kit, fuel filter, gas lines, the works.  When it was cold (10° or below) It would start and run on first or second pull.  Once it warmed up and I wanted to use it, it would start on one pull - but would take 30 to 50 pulls to get to that one.  Spark checker shows good hot spark, plug is moist but not wet so it is getting fuel.  It don't make any difference what throttle setting I use.  Got to chain it to a corner post and pull your a _ _ off to get it started.  IF  it ever does start and I happen to kill it or shut it off,  we are back to score one again.

 

I am going to try one more thing.  Pull the fly wheel, clean it all up, re-gap the coil, put on a new electronic ignition with a new plug, drain the carb so I know it is not flooded.  And try it again.  If it don't start and run. it will have a new home, complete with all attachments.  I will not have something sitting around occupying space that is supposed to run but won't start.  Wanted to plow the sweet potatoes out yesterday.  They are in a ridge row to high for a GT to clear.  Gardener was to to do they job with the middle buster on and ready to go.  Except it would not start.  It was stored inside and never left out.  The steel fuel tank was kept full so not moisture.


Edited by chieffan, September 17, 2015 - 08:39 AM.


#2 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 09:55 AM

I would check the flywheel key and the valves. Don't pull the head, just the side plate. See if the gap is correct and if the cam is lifting the lifter enough. Good Luck, Rick
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#3 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 10:32 AM

I was thinking maybe valve clearance too .  Could the gap tighten up when warm enough to effect the compression ? 


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#4 stiemmy ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 11:19 AM

Did you use ethanol free gas?

That junk collects water if not used. I'd check to make sure there is no water in there, cause if there is, it's going right to the bottom...
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#5 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 11:38 AM

I was thinking maybe valve clearance too .  Could the gap tighten up when warm enough to effect the compression ? 

But is has to start when cold first.



#6 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 11:40 AM

Did you use ethanol free gas?

That junk collects water if not used. I'd check to make sure there is no water in there, cause if there is, it's going right to the bottom...

NO.  All I have ever used in any of the tractors and mower is the gasohol.  Works fine in all the others.  Water is not an issue. 
This engine IS an issue, and a big one.  Has been from day one.


Edited by chieffan, September 17, 2015 - 11:41 AM.


#7 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 11:51 AM

Went through it all again this morning.  Everything under the flywheel was clean and looked good.  Flywheel key is good and was replaced when I first worked on it last winter.  Installed the electronic ignition and checked for spark.  Have good spark.  Removed the valve plate and have good valve movement.  Have good resistance on the rope too.  Can't use a compression checker with a rope start and no one to hold the checker or pull the rope.  Instructions say to use a CJ8 plug.  Wrong size for the hole in the head.  Plug in the engine is a D16. The manual for the out of production Briggs does not list a BR6.  So who know what the right plug is supposed to be.  Will run in to NAPA this afternoon and sew what we can come up with in an NGK or Autolite, anything BUT Champion.

 

Tried to start it again.  Squirted starting fluid and gas in the plug hole.  NOTHING.  I swear it is painted JD Green the way it is acting.  This is the first small engine  I have not been able to make run or know why it won't run.


Edited by chieffan, September 17, 2015 - 12:01 PM.

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#8 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 12:12 PM

I think what you are experiencing is a typical failure mode for the #29656 "horseshoe" magneto coil.

 

Sometimes, a good, hot, spark when tested, is not adequate to fire a plug under compression.

 

Put a few drops of gas on the cylinder head, and lay the plug wire terminal nearby.  ...Pull the rope and see if the spark will ignite the gas. 

 

Does the spark jump a 3/16" gap ??  .....If not, the ignition is weak.

 

Are you using the choke when re-starting a warm engine?  ......Some engines require choking even when warm, while others will not tolerate choking, and flood easily.  .....Each individual engine seems to have its own "personality."


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#9 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 01:17 PM

I left the spark checker connected to the plug when it was in the engine.  Pulled it several times and showed spark.  Hard to say just how hot is was as to much movement when pulling the rope to keep a steady eye on the checker.

 

The spark will jump the .025 gap of the plug.  I don't have the Briggs spark checker to see if it will jump the 3/`16" gap or not.  Guess I could gap the plug to 3/16" and try that.  Champion plug so wasn't any good out of the box so won't hurt anything.

 

It has to start cold before anything can be determined about what it wants to start warm.

 

About through wasting my time on this thing.  First $400 gets it all, dead machine, plow, cultivator with hilling attachments.  New tires full of fluid.

 

Laid the plug on top of the head, run a jumper from the plug to a good ground.  Had spark.  Dribbled a little bit of gas next to the plug.  One short pull and the gas was burning.  From that, and what I have gather from postings, I don't think the coil or spark is the problem.  Going after a different plug.

 

New plug and didn't make one darn bit of difference.  Pulled it at least 25 times and got nothing.  Time for a new home or the scrap pile and take my losses and get it out of my sight.


Edited by chieffan, September 17, 2015 - 03:09 PM.


#10 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 01:25 PM

Man! Your killing me! A Huski Gardner and your too far away. :wallbanging: 

 

I looked up an original manual and it called for a Champion #8 Commercial plug or equivalent.


Edited by LilysDad, September 17, 2015 - 01:33 PM.

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#11 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 01:41 PM

#8 commercial cross references to Champion D16 or D21; Autolite B8 or BT8; NGK A6 or AB6; AC Delco C87. This is a 18 mm plug.

 

The manual says gap to .025.


Edited by LilysDad, September 17, 2015 - 01:42 PM.

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#12 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 04:38 PM

Maybe you have an intermittent short in the plug wire or the points wire. Try cranking the engine in the dark and look for sparks. I still am suspicious of the valves because I had a B&S that would close up the valvelash as it got hotter. Good Luck, Rick


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#13 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 06:52 PM

Maybe you have an intermittent short in the plug wire or the points wire. Try cranking the engine in the dark and look for sparks. I still am suspicious of the valves because I had a B&S that would close up the valvelash as it got hotter. Good Luck, Rick

The plug wire was put on new when I done all the other work last winter.  The wire to the points was braided and covered in a insulating tube.  I twisted that wire and the wire from the ignition module, then put a wire nut on which covered the wires and insulating tube completely.

 

This engine has not run since this past spring when I plowed part of the garden with it.  Was hard to start then cold and hot.  Since then it has not started so as warm as it has got is air temp, 89° today.  Going back under the flywheel and check everything again, including both ground wires from the coil.  I don't remember seen two but the manual says there is two so will see.  Will also check the valve clearance but I am sure form the sound and the way it pulls that the valves are closing completely, and I know they are opening OK.

 

Manual does not show or tell how to check the coil for resistance or anything.  Not sure how that is to be done or what it is supposed to read.


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#14 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 07:37 PM

Sorry I miss understood , thought it started ok when cold but not hot
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#15 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 08:09 PM

Not a problem Alec.  It won't start at all.  About ready to hook up an electric motor and belt to the darn thing and wind it up till the pieces flay.  At least I will know why it won't start !!!






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