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Tech HH160 Won't Idle Smooth


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#1 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 14, 2015 - 07:34 PM

I have an H16XL with a HH160 Tech.  I have had the carb off and cleaned it, soaked it, blew it out, numerous times.  Today I went through it again and put a kit in.  Fired it up and let it run and warm up good running a good fast idle.  At a third throttle and above it runs nice and smooth, very responsive.  When I try to idle it down to just a fast idle it starts to run rough and shake a lot.  It starts right off with choke and leave the throttle were it is, real fast idle.   I have a HH140 in a G12 (re-motored)  and it runs smooth at all speeds.  I am thinking I might need a new carb.  It has a Walbro LMH on it.  I tried a carb off another HH160 with a bad ignition coil and that was no different, so not sure the carb is the real problem.  I have run 2 tanks of gas through it with a heavy dose of Sea Foam.  At slowest speed to keep it running it will miss and little puff of white smoke will come out the muffler.  The misses are about 10 to 15 seconds apart.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.  I am not much into the Tech engines.  More the Briggs and Wisconsin's.



#2 backyardtinker OFFLINE  

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Posted September 14, 2015 - 08:05 PM

How's the throttle shaft play? Is it sucking air past the shaft and leaning it out too much?


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#3 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted September 14, 2015 - 11:45 PM

Idle circuit is plugged up Or it has a Non Servicable emulsion tube.

 

There are 3 small holes on the inside near the throttle butterfly.They are on the right side.

100_1450.JPG

 

And a hole inside on the Choke side feeds it.

100_1452.JPG

 

Spray Carb cleaner though the Front hole and see if it comes out the 3 small holes on the inside.Watch you don't get any carb cleaner in your eyes.

 

 

Non Serviceable emulsion tube 100_1448.JPG

 

Serviceable emulsion tube post-5455-0-14116800-1363655020.gif

 

 

If yours looks like the Top one then you will either have to replace it with a Serviceable emulsion tube OR Modify your existing one.

 

I don't have any of the ones that i modded handy but All you have to do is Cut a Slot 2 threads from the bottom the whole way around and clean out the tiny hole.

 

I used a Hack Saw to cut mine.You do not want to go very deep with the cut.Just a TINY bit deeper than the threads.

 

After doing all that cleaning and Emulsion Tube mod and it still doesn't want to idle you might have a clogged up secondary idle circuit.That one is a Pain in the butt to get the Very small Brass plug out to clean it.

 

I pulled this one allready.They are darn near impossible to get out unless you drill them out.They are in there just deep enough to where you can't pry them out.

 

100_1454.JPG 100_1456.JPG 100_1458.JPG

 

I've sorta become an expert on LME and LMH carbs since I cut a couple severely worn out ones apart and found out exactly how they work.


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#4 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 07:33 AM

How's the throttle shaft play? Is it sucking air past the shaft and leaning it out too much?

The throttle shaft is visibly wore on one side does allow some play.  Thinking of scoring it up a little and using JB Weld to build it up, then work it down for a good fit but still turn free.  I have used dense felt washer on the shaft kept soaked with oil to stop this air leak but no room with the return spring that is on there.  Any better suggestions would sure be welcome.


Edited by chieffan, September 15, 2015 - 07:34 AM.


#5 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 07:35 AM

My 16 has never idled smoothly. I know it needs butterfly bushings so that maybe the problem. Mine will actually hunt slightly and stumble sometimes.

I have a friend who his dad and him has collected/pulled Sears for 25 yrs, they say the OH16 Tecs never seems to idle smooth.


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#6 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 07:43 AM

RE: EricFromPa

Mine has the none serviceable emulsion tube according to the instructions that came with the kit.  It is not working the way it is so will pull it out and modify it the way you show.

 

That plug for the secondary idle circuit, if it is just a plug and is drilled out , would a small dab if JB Weld plug the hole after cleaning? 

 

This is the first Walbro LMH I have messed with other than a general cleaning.  If I mess this one up I do have another carb that I can work on to put on this engine. 



#7 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 07:51 AM

I've found JB weld breaks down after awhile with gas, tried to fix my plastic gas tank nipple with it a couple times, eventually leaked every time.

 

You can pull out the main jet ( emulsion tube) and service it, but you have to modify or get the replacement as you will never get it back in prefect alignment. They install them at factory then drill from the outside and plug hole. Be careful and make sure you have a screwdriver that fits it nice and snug, they are easy to strip.


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#8 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 09:40 AM

I have a steel tankon a Wisconsin I ought over a year ago. It had a seam leak on the bottom front end.  I repaired it with JB Weld and it is still holding.  One thing I did learn a long time ago, the area has to be perfectly clean.  Cannot use any petro based cleaned as it will leave a film and hinder adhension.  I clean with carb cleaner or laquor thinner.  Also have to have a failry think layer of JB Weld to keep it in place and sealed off.


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#9 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 11:29 AM

Maybe I had an adhesion problem, I dunno. I have found some stuff called "Seals All' at Advance Auto, I use it on any fuel threaded connection and small repair, it's designed for oil/gas areas.


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#10 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 12:22 PM

Took it all apart, again, and sprayed it all with carb cleaner.  Removed the emulsion tube, which I found was the removable kind.  It had crud in it so cleaned all the holes and sprayed with the carb cleaner and then forced air.  Te carb in the last pic is different than mine.  Where that wire goes down into a hole, mine has a real small plug recessed in that hole.  I did not see any tiny hole in the plug or the one on the side either.  I don't think they are there.  The opening from the idle mixture needle is open as it blows carb cleaner out the three tiny holes inside the body.  Repaired the throttle shaft and it fits like a new one.  Put it all back together and fired it up.  Let it run for a while at fast idle, then tried to slow it down some and adjust the mixture screw.  The mixture screw did have an effect on how it run.  In to far and it dies.  adjusted it where it ran the best a fast idle and let it go at that.  I guess this thing is not supposed to idle so it will run fast all the time,  Hard idle when not moving and 3/4 + when I am using it.  Going to start looking for a new carb for it and probably won't be a Walbro.  Got to be something better.  Thanks for all the help and advise.  I learned a lot and greatly appreciate it.


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#11 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 01:34 PM

Lets see if My MAD MS Paint skills can show the holes internally :rolling: .

 

idle circuit.jpg

 

 

 

With the Emulsion tube installed when you spray carb cleaner through the bottom feed hole does it come out the bottom?

 

100_1461.JPG

 

 

Is the tip of the idle jet intact? I've had a couple that someone over tightened and snapped the tip off.

The tip will either fall out once the jet is removed or you'll have to knock it out from the inside.They can be a pain if it's snapped off and stuck in the hole.

 

100_1462.JPG

 

This is a common problem on the old Briggs carbs that used Aluminum idle jet screws.Doesn't happen as often on the Walbro carbs.

 

 

 

 


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#12 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 01:43 PM

I wish you luck in finding a carb that will fit.

 

The mounting bolt spacing will be your biggest challange.The OHV LMH carbs have a wider bolt pattern than other Tecumseh Carbs.

 

Maybe a Carter carb off of a Kohler will fit? I don't know.

 

If you can get the throttle hooked up to where it moves freely without binding that would be a very good choice.



#13 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 02:34 PM

 

Maybe a Carter carb off of a Kohler will fit? I don't know.

 

 

 

I know a carb from an 8Hp Kohler bolts right up to a 10-12 Hp Tecumseh flathead which uses an LME carb. My buddy does it, the Tec runs much better so maybe the Kohler won't work on the OH160 motor? Don't know, just throwing it out there.

 

The LMH can be a pain since you have two mixture screws. I set both at 1 1/2 then go form there. The bowl screw sets best at WOT, the one on the side is best at just above idle


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#14 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 05:15 PM

Lets see if My MAD MS Paint skills can show the holes internally :rolling: .

 

attachicon.gifidle circuit.jpg

 

 

 

With the Emulsion tube installed when you spray carb cleaner through the bottom feed hole does it come out the bottom?

 

attachicon.gif100_1461.JPG

 

 

Is the tip of the idle jet intact? I've had a couple that someone over tightened and snapped the tip off.

The tip will either fall out once the jet is removed or you'll have to knock it out from the inside.They can be a pain if it's snapped off and stuck in the hole.

 

attachicon.gif100_1462.JPG

 

This is a common problem on the old Briggs carbs that used Aluminum idle jet screws.Doesn't happen as often on the Walbro carbs.

I am 99% sure all the holes are are open that are supposed to be.   All the holes in the emulsion tube are open.  I guess I don't follow you on the drawing or what you mean by "when you spray carb cleaner through the bottom feed hole does it come out the bottom?"  With the emulsion tube installed and I spray in the bottom of the emulsion tube it came out inside the body of the carb.  Also the idle jet is new with the kit and nothing is in the seat.  Changing the jet setting does have a reaction to how the motor runs.  Also this carb only has one jet adjustment and that is the idle.  There is no adjustable high speed, which makes them next to junk in my book.


Edited by chieffan, September 15, 2015 - 05:20 PM.


#15 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 05:24 PM

Will do some more checking on the original engine off this tractor.  it was removed because the coil went bad but have the entire engine to work with.  Will get the carb up to the shop and tear it apart and see what I can shake out of it.  Not sure what carb is on it but it is a 16hp Tech I am sure.

 

Afraid the HH160 will want more fuel than the carter for a 10 or 12 can deliver.  Don't know for sure as I have never messed with that end.






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