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Shaw R12


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#1 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted September 13, 2015 - 06:19 PM

So, I picked this up today, and in doing so, seemingly committed to a second full time job over the winter. It needs A LOT of work. Just about everything that can seize, is seized, and that's just the beginning. The electric start is original I think, and I also think the hydraulics and fenders may be as well, from what I can see, and compared to a couple of catalogs I have. Are those all correct Shaw options on there? Please tell me if they're not. There are a couple other things on there that I think or know have been replaced along the way as well. This should be interesting. It needs a complete tear-down and a whole lot of parts rebuilt.

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#2 DH1 ONLINE  

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Posted September 13, 2015 - 06:25 PM

Is that a 2 cylinder Wisconsin?


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#3 classic ONLINE  

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Posted September 13, 2015 - 06:51 PM

Looks like a great restoration project and you will surely have your hands full. Before and after pics will look great side by side. It looks like a T96 transmission and you can find deals on gears on ebay if you search once in a while. If that's a 15" Sheller steering wheel, there are NOS ones on ebay for 35.00 plus shipping. They have splined and tapered hubs, but they can be modified if yours is keyed and tapered.
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#4 HANKG OFFLINE  

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Posted September 13, 2015 - 07:49 PM

Gonna be cool


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#5 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted September 14, 2015 - 03:47 AM

Thanks, guys.  We'll see how it goes.  Still debating about whether I want to get into it or not.  I'll think about it for awhile.

Is that a 2 cylinder Wisconsin?

Yes, it's a model TF twin cylinder Wisconsin.  The serial number dates it to early 1949.  They talk about both the model TE and TF being used in the literature I have.  I have my doubts as to whether or not that's the original engine though.  I think either the whole engine and hood was replaced at some point, or maybe just part of the hood.  The grill still has part of an old gauge in a hole in it, like for when they used these engine and hood assemblies as a powerplant for something else, and I don't see a Shaw badge on the grill, or any holes left behind that would suggest that one ever hung there.  The model of engine is correct, but it may be a replacement.

 

Looks like a great restoration project and you will surely have your hands full. Before and after pics will look great side by side. It looks like a T96 transmission and you can find deals on gears on ebay if you search once in a while. If that's a 15" Sheller steering wheel, there are NOS ones on ebay for 35.00 plus shipping. They have splined and tapered hubs, but they can be modified if yours is keyed and tapered.

Yes, I am fortunate that most of the things that are wrong with it are relatively easily found.  Some things not so much, but for the most part, many of the problems can be fixed by finding relatively easily found replacements.  I may have a lead on another TF engine already.  A TF would be a correct choice in terms of engine from what I understand, but I'd guess that just about any Wisconsin twin would work, and there are still a fair number of them around with all the hood work still attached.  I'll find a TF eventually.  The Borg Warner T96 transmissions were used on a lot of things (e.g. Gibson), so I should be able to find one of those, or look for gears as you suggested.  I'll have to check out that steering wheel to see what kind of setup is on there.  I'll have to do a bunch of wrenching to determine exactly what I need, make a list, and then start hunting.  Should be fun as I do enjoy the hunting aspect of this hobby.


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#6 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted September 14, 2015 - 11:51 AM

I'd say the hydraulics and generator set up is original. The fenders probably are as well. Not all of the R12s had the Shaw cast emblem on the front but I've never seen a gauge up there either. Some had the cast emblem on the frame and some didn't use it at all. I think the first year for the round front frame was 50. The first 2 years had a flat front to the frame.


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#7 oldiron1 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 14, 2015 - 01:35 PM

Great project Jamie; I like it!

 

Rob


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#8 Tbrooks OFFLINE  

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Posted September 14, 2015 - 06:43 PM

The starter, generator and pump look like ours, I would say they are right. The fenders are right. But it looks like the rear rims are wrong, they look like farmall cub rims that have been modified. Great find though on the whole! These are fun tractors to drive. Can't wait to see this one restored.
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#9 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 07:24 AM

I'd say the hydraulics and generator set up is original. The fenders probably are as well. Not all of the R12s had the Shaw cast emblem on the front but I've never seen a gauge up there either. Some had the cast emblem on the frame and some didn't use it at all. I think the first year for the round front frame was 50. The first 2 years had a flat front to the frame.

Thanks, Doug.  I find it very interesting how inconsistent they were (and many other companies of the time period) in building their machines, making little changes here and there for various reasons (e.g. availability of parts, etc.).  

 

Great project Jamie; I like it!

 

Rob

Thanks, Rob.

 

The starter, generator and pump look like ours, I would say they are right. The fenders are right. But it looks like the rear rims are wrong, they look like farmall cub rims that have been modified. Great find though on the whole! These are fun tractors to drive. Can't wait to see this one restored.

The rear wheels are definitely not original.  They might even be a 9x24 rim as it looks like the 8.3 tires are pretty stretched out to fit on there, although I'm not expert on these things.  I'd like to find a more appropriate pair of rims.  I think I know where there's a set of nice 7x24 tires.  If I remember correctly, I think the catalogs (or was it the price lists?) that I have mention that you could get 7x24 rear tires or 8x24.  I used to have an R12 (very plain, except it had the adjustable front axle), and it had probably 8x24 rims with new 8.3x24 tires.  Rear rims will be on my shopping list.  The ones on this tractor are relatively nice, so maybe I can trade or something.


Edited by jtrojek, September 15, 2015 - 07:25 AM.

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#10 Tbrooks OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2015 - 07:12 PM

Some old manure spreaders had 24" rims on them. We used them on a couple other restoration projects. They are easy and cheep to come by in salvage yards. We had to grind the rivets off of the centers and punch them out, then hammer the centers out. Weld the rivet holes shut and grind smooth. Then fabricate mounts.
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#11 Clifford Bridgford OFFLINE  

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Posted September 16, 2015 - 09:09 AM

Standard front tire size was 3.00 X 12. Optional size was 4.00 X 12. The same wheels were used for both sizes.  Standard rear tire size was 6-24. Optional sizes were 7-24 and 8-24.  Three rear wheel rims were used, 5", 6", and 7" width to match the tire size.

 

The starter and generator look to be original. The regulator is mounted in the wrong place. The battery box looks original. The left side flywheel guard is missing. The ammeter should be mounted under the fuel tank facing the operator.

 

The hydraulic system is not original.  Shaw used two self contained systems, the first manufactured by Hydreco and the second by Vickers.  The lift loop on the rear is a standard manual lift loop modified to use the hydraulic cylinder.  The lift lever has been modified and moved forward.  The Shaw cylinder would have been mounted on the left side, and the lift loop was a different design.

 

The rectangular brackets in the first photo located below the frame are non Shaw. The fenders look original.

 

If you deside to overhaul this tractor, there are special procedures you need to know to disassemble the final drives so you do not break the castings, and procedures to modify the transmission mainshaft to prevent 2-3 synchroniser failure.  You can contact me for this information.  About  3 grand will put this in pristine shape if you can do all the work yourself.

 

Cliff


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#12 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 06:07 AM

Some old manure spreaders had 24" rims on them. We used them on a couple other restoration projects. They are easy and cheep to come by in salvage yards. We had to grind the rivets off of the centers and punch them out, then hammer the centers out. Weld the rivet holes shut and grind smooth. Then fabricate mounts.

I think I'll inquire into the 7x24 tires I ran into to take a better look at them, to see if they're what I'm looking for.  Then I'll have to search for rims.  Thanks for the manure spreader tip.  I'll definitely keep that in mind.

 

Standard front tire size was 3.00 X 12. Optional size was 4.00 X 12. The same wheels were used for both sizes.  Standard rear tire size was 6-24. Optional sizes were 7-24 and 8-24.  Three rear wheel rims were used, 5", 6", and 7" width to match the tire size.

 

The starter and generator look to be original. The regulator is mounted in the wrong place. The battery box looks original. The left side flywheel guard is missing. The ammeter should be mounted under the fuel tank facing the operator.

 

The hydraulic system is not original.  Shaw used two self contained systems, the first manufactured by Hydreco and the second by Vickers.  The lift loop on the rear is a standard manual lift loop modified to use the hydraulic cylinder.  The lift lever has been modified and moved forward.  The Shaw cylinder would have been mounted on the left side, and the lift loop was a different design.

 

The rectangular brackets in the first photo located below the frame are non Shaw. The fenders look original.

 

If you deside to overhaul this tractor, there are special procedures you need to know to disassemble the final drives so you do not break the castings, and procedures to modify the transmission mainshaft to prevent 2-3 synchroniser failure.  You can contact me for this information.  About  3 grand will put this in pristine shape if you can do all the work yourself.

 

Cliff

Thanks for all the great info and insight.  I'll send you a private message if I have to tear the rear end/final drives apart.  Breaking something when tearing it apart is never my idea of fun.  I need to do a closer inspection of this tractor to see exactly what all it needs first.  

 

Thanks everyone!


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#13 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2015 - 09:38 AM

I'm guessing that it's the transmission that's locked up, not the rear end.  The rear wheels turn a little bit.  I took the top of the transmission off to take a look.  There was no oil in the transmission, just water, and a whole lot of something or other in the bottom.  The something or other (not really oily, but some sort of sludge nevertheless) definitely would prevent the gears from turning.  It was packed in there pretty good.  The gears were also very rusty.  There was no movement on anything in the transmission, from the gears to the shift forks.  The gears were also rusted.  I've had many garden tractors that have sat outside for long periods of time, ones that are filled with both oil and lots of water, but I've never had anything quite like this.  I think it needs to be all taken apart, sandblasted (or whatever is appropriate) to remove all the rust, etc.  Anyway, I think I'm just going to try to find a replacement for it.  I will maybe just for fun see if I can get this one to work, but I'd like to find a replacement to use in the tractor, and then use the old one as a learning experience, taking it apart, cleaning it, putting it back together, etc.  So, time to find a replacement Borg Warner T-96 transmission.  They seem fairly common to me, given the number of things they were used in: Gibsons, Waterloo Broncos, Mighty Mites, Shaws, Jeeps, etc.  I'm quite hopeful I can find a decent used one.  I also look forward to taking the old one apart and learning a whole lot from it.  We'll see though.  My plan may change, all depending on a few things.


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#14 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2015 - 10:34 AM

I was looking at the pictures again and was wondering , it looks like a ratchet type handle for the implement lift ? and looks like it also has hydraulic lift too ?


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#15 jtrojek OFFLINE  

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Posted September 22, 2015 - 09:26 AM

I was looking at the pictures again and was wondering , it looks like a ratchet type handle for the implement lift ? and looks like it also has hydraulic lift too ?

It's a typical kind of manual lift, similar to what's used on many garden tractors, which has been augmented with a hydraulic system.  The control valve has a tag on it that says it's a Hydreco brand.  That's just about all I know at this point.  






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