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More Vanguard issues and ? Starter removal and kill wire


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#1 glgrumpy ONLINE  

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Posted September 12, 2015 - 11:28 PM

Worked more on 1641 today on the pto clutch. I moved the drive pulley in some, cut off the key about 1/4" that was sticking out  and mounted the clutch. Starter is really cranking fast and working good. But, thru tries I was having the pto be locked up against the drive pulley w/out knowing at first. Could here it click and work, but not really releasing. I pulled center bolt and then worked fine. Off and on many times, finally figured I needed a spacer washer between the two pulleys as the outer section was rubbing our aways from center, NOT at center. SO, that worked fine. In mean time starter goes bad and making awful noise. Figure drive just stuck, not realeasing. Went to remove it and can't find bolts. Finally find a little tin cover over the bolts, how dumb! But NOW, the bolts won't take a socket! Lower one cab barely see, need mirror and lights to find it. Many socket sizes tried. 13mm seems right, yet wont go on or stay on. Other bolt, cant even see. Engine is still in tractor here and dash tins in way and dark and and and. Decided to take the blower cover off to see if can see more. PIA to get off, but does come and not much better. I can now get slight site of top bolt, but is not in line with any opening to remove.....WTF??  I did get lower bolt by spraying some cleaner in area and blowing with air. Still had to knock the socket on the head to get it to go on and stay. Came right out. At this time I can also see the plastic drive gear is toast, toothless!  Think with pto drag, kinda made it strip. Now also thinking maybe motor shaft has bad bearing at this end. I can't get a socket in to the upper bolt with starter drive on. DOES THIS come off first?? Looks like  it could, EXCEPT, can't get in to drive the pin out from the gear unit. I'm assuming that is how it comes off, don't really know. There is a small plastic cover over that with a spring that seems like should release some how, but maybe not??? Two flat spots on the drive, thought maybe turning up would allow socket into that bolt. Still way lower, no go. So NOW, thinking I might need to pull the flywheel off and the back tin down there just to get it unbolted.  Saving that for later or at least after asking about it. Now hoping there isn't some other Rear bolt on the motor that I can't see that needs to come off. Sure don't think so at moment. I really need to buy a shop book for these I guess, quite diff than most I've worked on. 

     I'm also wiring it up and have most done. I had running earlier on fluid, but can't find right place to connect the kill wire or M term off the key switch. Also, seems I have power at that wire, so something must be wrong with my wiring. The manuals show a diagram, but for old style switch w/out selinoid.  With cover off I've found a small nut on side of cover tins that connects it seems to one of the coil feed wires. Think that is it? or is that for some safety stuff like fuel shut-off?  I've found the rectifier, and it has one wire from it, guess to be the 12 volt feed to battery charging. Will be trying it on the ammeter. Think it should be on the Negative side of that, correct?  The term also goes to the switch and think the pto switch feeds off that, can't recall for sure. There is another tab on a wire from same area near the rectifier that I thought was the kill wire, but it doesn't do the killing and stays running. I had it hooked up to the key before I knew there was juice at that term there and now hoping I didn't wreck something with that fault. I will have to try that  wire near reg  to ground on chassis once it runs again. Starter is needing work now, as noted and haven't run since then.

   I got the choke hooked up fine, but throttle is backwards, with UP being slow and Down being fast. The holder had two bolt holes in it, that lined up fine, but are on wrong side of dash slot to be the right way. I took this throttle off the Horse tractor engine was orig on. The cable is right length and lines right up, just had to mount lever backwards. Guess I will need a diff throttle??  I'm bolting it in for now, seems it is going to work, just have to remember the diff movement. I was going to drill two diff holes on other side of dash slot, but they get into the corner seam and won't be flat there, so changed mind on that.

   Wrote a book here! So, does the starter drive come off with starter motor still mounted? Seems like room to pass thru tin.  What is procedure for removing starter mount bolts??  Think I can change the bushings in starter end, or is it just a new starter needed these days??



#2 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted September 13, 2015 - 12:02 AM

Does the starter have torx bolts. I turned gear drive out of the way by hand and used long torx wrench from Harbor Freight to get top one pia. If not torx you need 1/4 inch drive with short sockets 3/8 & 1/2 extension to wide to get hold of bolt. 



#3 glgrumpy ONLINE  

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Posted September 13, 2015 - 06:57 AM

Not torx. I did NOT try the smaller socket size. Not sure I have a small 13mm, have to check. I DO have a deep one, but that is not of any help. Might have to go buy one I guess. You are right on the PIA part. I'm seeing starters listed on epay for pretty cheap, but they don't have the same drive on them. The parts book shows the one with this drive is a shorter bodied one, not sure if important or not? I even see one in parts book and epay with metal gear and diff drive shaft. Not sure if any of these interchange? Those plastic gears are stupid, not sure why they keep using them all these years. I have found a starter on epay that is listed for my size engine, but looks kinda rough, but cheap! Also not sure if Vertical shaft one is same as Horizontal one??? Some list for those, like on the JD ones.



#4 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted September 13, 2015 - 08:06 AM

The plastic gear is for aluminium ring gear the metal ones for motors with steel ring gear.



#5 glgrumpy ONLINE  

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Posted September 13, 2015 - 02:37 PM

Well, flywheel off now. Took off lower back cover and there it was, plain to see. Starter off now,pin drove out of drive with support then. Bearing in starter IS shot! Might see in pix? This whole engine is full of dirt and mud! Wonder how it was used? Cleaned flywheel around magnets and once gunk was gone found loose mag. Only thing holding it in was a traction to metal and dirt globs. Now is there glue? Or, can it work with 11 out of 12 mags still in, leave it out? I took pix of wires there. One wire goes to carb, think fuel shut-off? It wasn't hooked up to run? One I'm pointing at is off rectifier, think that is my charge? Going to -side of ammeter? Above that is terminal I'm thinking is for grounding stop? It connects to common coil wires. Is there anything like Brakleen spray to clean engine? That stuff damages plastic and paint, won't use it. Maybe some alcohol type? Cleans then dries fast? Trying to not use gunk, no way to hose off now.

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#6 glgrumpy ONLINE  

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Posted September 14, 2015 - 01:14 PM

Talked to my shop guy today. Bought a starter that he says they use on most of these. Little smaller body and has the more common drive gear set-up on it. About $80 worth, eeeps!  Now to put back together, but gotta clean engine up some first. Not sure what to do with that yet. Might just be reg Gas and a brush kinda looking like. I wanted to just spray and let drip and dry something, but not sure what to do for that? Have a magnet to fix in flywheel also. JB weld it is looking like, cross your fingers!! Next is big money for a muffler and sheild. Ka-Ching!  So much for a low-priced used engine!!

 

That terminal on side IS for the mag shut-down. I bought a diff switch to wire up. Mine now has power to that term on the switch, something wrong, or I have wired wrong?? Should just be a ground. Shop says I need power to the carb fuel shut-off to run, but this hasn't had that.  Will have to see if that will be needed or just what?


Edited by glgrumpy, September 14, 2015 - 01:18 PM.


#7 glgrumpy ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2015 - 05:38 PM

All back together and running good. Yes, need gas flow on carb wired up and got the kill term connected, the thing is charging. Replaced the key switch with new one and did some diff wiring and much better now, everything works!

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Edited by glgrumpy, September 17, 2015 - 05:40 PM.


#8 TAHOE ONLINE  

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Posted September 18, 2015 - 07:28 AM

Looking  good Gary






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