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Help with an Allis B12


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#1 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 07:37 PM

So I had a little time today and decided to get back to the Allis project I've been sitting on for a couple of years now.  When last we left Allis, she had no spark.  Well, things haven't changed.  She was cranking over fine but, alas, no spark.  Started cleaning connections (years of sitting under a porch roof), looked at the points, they look like new, still nothing.  I started to think the voltage reguator might be bad.  Then, in my smack the head and call yourself stupid moment, I knew exactly what the problem was (is).  It has to be the coil.  This is a briggs and the flywheel is probably so corroded that it's not setting to coil off.  Guess an engine removal is in order this week (I hope).  Now, a question, was there only one engine on these tractors?  I ask because, I have been all over this engine and have found no numbers what-so-ever.  Gonna need those numbers if I have to get parts.  I found part of a tag that looks like it had important numbers at one time but, of course, they are worn off.  Briggs usually stamps numbers into the shroud but I have yet to find any.  This thing has the hi/lo range so I really want to get it running and find a tiller for it.  I have a snow plow, deck and garden plow for it already.

 

Once I have it running (it will run), I'll get some new tires for it and set about painting it.  I just have to find paint that is a close match.  Any suggestions there?


Edited by David Brown, August 23, 2015 - 07:38 PM.


#2 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 08:26 PM

On my B10 I took the wirre off the points and ran it to an external coil with that wire and a condenser on the neg. post , make sure the condenser is grounded then a jumper from the coils pos. to the battery just to see how the engine ran . I'll have to remove the flywheel too when I do the tractor over but at least I got to drive it a little

#3 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 08:32 PM

My later B10 has the 243341 B&S engine. Yours should be the slightly bigger one for 12 hp. It should be the same engine as my MTD 1200. I'll go check it. Meanwhile, look for the B&S Repairmans Manual. Good Luck, Rick

It is probably in the 300401 to 300424 series. In my opinion you are better off pulling the engine out, pulling the shroud and cleaning the engine are a good start. I have found that mice really like these engines an build nests in them every winter. The young chew on the wires and piss on the coil causing corrosion and shorts. When I pulled the engine on my son's B10 two years ago, there were two layers of mouse nest and a 4' snake skin in the shroud. The cooling fins were totally plugged and would have overheated the engine if it had started.

While you are that far along, consider overhauling the engine. Thorough disassembly and cleaning can head off impending failure and help it run better. Lap and gap the valves. Good Luck, Rick

Edited by boyscout862, August 23, 2015 - 08:44 PM.

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#4 mrmd OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 08:42 PM

As far as paint goes I would suggest Rustoleum Old Cat Yellow. Far cheaper than mixing matching numbers. Can get in quarts or spray cans for smaller items. If memory serves ( doesn' always anymore) my 12s are 300421_0127. Good luck.
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#5 petrj6 ONLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 08:47 PM

   if the tractor has been setting for awhile you may want to tickle those point just for the heck of it,  A little sandpaper and a piece of white paper and you may get spark after all.  I have had some really nasty flywheels that still sparked, the rust really wont stop the coil from working.

                                                                                                                                                                                         Pete


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#6 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 09:08 PM

if the tractor has been setting for awhile you may want to tickle those point just for the heck of it, A little sandpaper and a piece of white paper and you may get spark after all. I have had some really nasty flywheels that still sparked, the rust really wont stop the coil from working.
Pete

Well I did hit the points with some sand paper already. Still nothing. I wanted to try everything before I yanked the engine. I had a Briggs once where I had to mess with the coil every couple months. Something wasn't right there.
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#7 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 09:32 PM

Hey I never tore into one of these. What should I expect to get the engine out. I realize the wires and hoses involved. I'm talking about the drive train. Is it connected or will the engine slide right out?

#8 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 10:20 PM

Do you have a new condenser on it?

 

Have you disconnected all the wiring going from the points to the ignition switch? 

 

Ben W.


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#9 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 11:57 PM

Hey I never tore into one of these. What should I expect to get the engine out. I realize the wires and hoses involved. I'm talking about the drive train. Is it connected or will the engine slide right out?


It is a project to get the engine out. There is a special bolt on the left rear corner of the engine that mounts it to the tractor that you will need to understand because you can't get a wrench on it. It is a trapped bolt because of its oversize head. The other 3 mounting bolts are normal. The flywheel adapter will need to be unbolted from the flexplate on the end of the drive shaft. This can be helped alot by a ratcheting box wrench. I usually figure an hour to get an engine out. It is heavy, use a hoist. There are a couple of good manuals for these in the Manuals Section. Good Luck, Rick
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#10 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted August 24, 2015 - 04:20 AM

Do you have a new condenser on it?

 

Have you disconnected all the wiring going from the points to the ignition switch? 

 

Ben W.

I do not and I have not.  I know that I have no spark at the points which would normally indicate the coil, yes?



#11 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted August 24, 2015 - 04:23 AM

It is a project to get the engine out. There is a special bolt on the left rear corner of the engine that mounts it to the tractor that you will need to understand because you can't get a wrench on it. It is a trapped bolt because of its oversize head. The other 3 mounting bolts are normal. The flywheel adapter will need to be unbolted from the flexplate on the end of the drive shaft. This can be helped alot by a ratcheting box wrench. I usually figure an hour to get an engine out. It is heavy, use a hoist. There are a couple of good manuals for these in the Manuals Section. Good Luck, Rick

Great, thanks.  Now I'm really looking forward to this.  Sounds like a great design to me.  So if you can't get a wrench on it, how do you loosen it?



#12 petrj6 ONLINE  

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Posted August 24, 2015 - 04:54 AM

   that bolt is trapped on top so you just take the nut of the bottom and the bolt comes out with the motor, you will need to either drain the oil and remove the drain pipe or do  bit of maneuvering to get that pipe clear of the frame.  I would do as ben suggested, if the switch is bad or there is a short in the wiring than you may be grounding the points and that will kill the spark, pretty simple thing to do. take about 10 min before you pull the motor.  good luck

              Pete


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#13 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted August 24, 2015 - 06:07 AM

   that bolt is trapped on top so you just take the nut of the bottom and the bolt comes out with the motor, you will need to either drain the oil and remove the drain pipe or do  bit of maneuvering to get that pipe clear of the frame.  I would do as ben suggested, if the switch is bad or there is a short in the wiring than you may be grounding the points and that will kill the spark, pretty simple thing to do. take about 10 min before you pull the motor.  good luck

              Pete

Thanks.  I figure I'll have to pull the engine anyway to redo this tractor but I should eliminate the easy stuff first.  As far as the condenser is concerned, I have a spare from a 16hp briggs that I used to have but am unsure it would work with this one.  Otherwise, I would need the numbers off the engine to get a new one or would any briggs condenser do?



#14 David Brown OFFLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2015 - 06:22 PM

Well as a follow up to this thread, I have been successful in getting a spark and I actually got this beast running for a few seconds on starter fluid.  Now I have a problem with fuel getting to the cylinder so I took the carb off and I have it soaking for the night.  I hope to get all the ports open and get this thing running tomorrow.  I really want to get this one done nice because it's got the hi/lo range and I got a garden plow and snow plow with it.  It's even got lights so it's decked out pretty good.  My B10 is pretty basic compared to this one.  When it was running, it ran very well and no smoke so that's good.



#15 petrj6 ONLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2015 - 07:51 PM

   be careful taking the carb apart, the main jet on the bottom needs to come out before you can pull the carb apart. clean it really good and check the float and you should be good to go.

                               Pete


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