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NTM MF12, Engine Oil Capacity Question


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#1 5ubtle OFFLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2015 - 03:38 PM

Hello to all,

 

First post here.

 

I recently purchased a MF12G which I believe to be 1976 vintage. It has lots of problems opportunities, which I am working through.  One thing is that the original engine oil dipstick is gone and another (ill fitting) dipstick has been added.  The new dipstick doesn't thread-on properly to the dipstick tube.  I'll look to buy the correct dipstick or just create a way for the ill fitting dipstick to attach securely and seal.

 

What I would like to know for now is the engine oil capacity.  With that, I could get the engine running temporarily.  If not the oil capacity, maybe someone knows the oil level with respect to the crankshaft center-line (or some other reference level)?

 

The particulars are:

Massey Ferguson MF12 tractor, model: MF12G, serial: 1446814632
Tecumseh 12HP horizontal shaft engine, model: HH120-120045E serial: 5339E
 
Thanks for any assistance.
Andy
 
 

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#2 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2015 - 04:06 PM

That would be 40 ounces of 30wt.  And welcome to GTtalk!  :wave:


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#3 propane1 ONLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2015 - 05:24 PM

Dip stick just pushes down and snaps in. Not threaded on my engine. My MF 12 is a 1976 also. HH120 Tecumseh engine in mine. Noel
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#4 propane1 ONLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2015 - 05:36 PM

Welcome to the site also, Noel.
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#5 5ubtle OFFLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2015 - 06:42 PM

Good news for me.  I drained the oil in the engine and got about 40 oz.  I was worried because that ill fitting dipstick showed way below the ADD mark.  The seller had the engine running when I arrived to buy it, and I didn't check the dipstick until after I had driven it.

 

Thank you for the information and the welcomes.


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#6 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2015 - 07:14 PM

There are 2 different style blocks Tecumseh made, difference in oil capacity.

One way to tell is the the way the engine bolts are.

The original type blocks the bolts went right through.

The large oil capacity blocks the bolts go in from the bottom, no nuts on them.


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#7 5ubtle OFFLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2015 - 07:30 PM

DH1, My block doesn't have nuts on the mounting bolts (see photo).  What is the capacity of the "large oil capacity block"?

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#8 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2015 - 07:37 PM

DH1, My block doesn't have nuts on the mounting bolts (see photo).  What is the capacity of the "large oil capacity block"?

 

I'm glad Doug chimed in.  I forgot about the 2 versions, and I found the large blocks hold 52 ounces.  You were in no danger, but it needs topping off.


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#9 FirefyterEmt OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2015 - 01:20 PM

Ok guys... This is a new one for me, what is the difference on the two so that you can tell by looking at them?

#10 MFGray OFFLINE  

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Posted August 25, 2015 - 03:37 PM

I'm glad Doug chimed in.  I forgot about the 2 versions, and I found the large blocks hold 52 ounces.  You were in no danger, but it needs topping off.

Olcowhand, now you have me worried. I have a larger block HH120 (same as in Doug's photo) and I have always filled it with 1 1/4 bottles of oil. A bottle being 946 ml. That works out to almost exactly 40 fl oz  and takes the level nicely to the top of the mark on the dipstick, so I have always thought 40 fl oz was enough.  

 

After reading your post I wondered if I had the wrong dipstick so I measured the marks. The top of the hatched fill mark  on the dipstick is 1 11/16" from the bottom and 5 3/4 " from the top. It is marked "44".

 

Then just to be sure I checked the dipstick out of an older HH120 which has the bolts running right through it and is secured by nuts - the smaller capacity model - but the dipstick in that has a fill mark that is 1 15/16" from the bottom and  5 1/2" from the top - i.e. 1/4" higher up. That is marked number "27".

 

If I use the number 27 dipstick in the larger block engine I would have to add a bit more oil - perhaps up to the  52 fl oz you mention - maybe I swapped them at some time without realizing? If anyone can check a dipstick that is original to the larger block engine, it would be interesting (and helpful) to know what number it is.

 

I don't suppose it really matters much, but it would be nice to know what dipstick is supposed to go with which type of engine, and how much oil each should have. 


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#11 5ubtle OFFLINE  

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Posted November 14, 2015 - 11:25 PM

Now that I've got my tractor reassembled, I've taken the time to try to better understand this "Large Block" HH120 that I have and which DH1 told us about.  Remember that my original question was because I didn't have the original oil dipstick.  Well ...

 

After filling with 52 oz. of oil and using a replacement dipstick and tube (Tecumseh PN 33984B), the dipstick reads FULL (top of the crosshatched area) if I screw in the dipstick to check the oil level.

 

I've Google searched for any info about this "Large Block" HH120, but I can't find anything.  Hopefully DH1 or olcowhand will come back and tell us more.

 

Concerning MFGray's questions: 

My new dipstick is 13.0" long (from the tube sealing surface inside the cap to the tip of the dipstick).  The top of the hatched fill mark  on the dipstick is 1.0" from the tip.  My dipstick tube is 6.5" long.  More importantly, in my opinion, is the oil level inside the block.  When installed in the block, the sealing surface at the top of the dipstick tube is 15.0" above the frame.  With 52 oz. of oil in the engine, the oil level is 3" above the frame which is 1-3/4" below the crankshaft center-line.

 

Thanks again to everybody who has answered my questions.


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#12 MFDAC OFFLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2015 - 01:51 PM

Hello 5ubtle, the HH120 I recently pulled off of my 12G seems to be the large block also, but my numbers don't match up with anything posted here. All I remember is it took over a quart in an oil change and from the add to full line was 3/4 quart. I remember that well as that's exactly how much oil it would burn during a normal mow!

 

My dipstick is 13-1/2" long.

Tube is 6-1/8" screwed into the block, 6-1/2" with the threads removed from the block.

From bottom of block (frame level if it was mounted) 14-3/8" to top of tube.

Fill level is about 2" above bottom of block, 2-3/4" below crank center.

 

These numbers make me think that this one, if this is the correct dipstick and tube used 40 oz. of oil.

 

Here's some pics.

 

DAC

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Edited by MFDAC, November 15, 2015 - 02:22 PM.

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#13 MFDAC OFFLINE  

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Posted November 16, 2015 - 09:32 PM

Olcowhand, now you have me worried. I have a larger block HH120 (same as in Doug's photo) and I have always filled it with 1 1/4 bottles of oil. A bottle being 946 ml. That works out to almost exactly 40 fl oz  and takes the level nicely to the top of the mark on the dipstick, so I have always thought 40 fl oz was enough.  

 

After reading your post I wondered if I had the wrong dipstick so I measured the marks. The top of the hatched fill mark  on the dipstick is 1 11/16" from the bottom and 5 3/4 " from the top. It is marked "44".

 

Then just to be sure I checked the dipstick out of an older HH120 which has the bolts running right through it and is secured by nuts - the smaller capacity model - but the dipstick in that has a fill mark that is 1 15/16" from the bottom and  5 1/2" from the top - i.e. 1/4" higher up. That is marked number "27".

 

If I use the number 27 dipstick in the larger block engine I would have to add a bit more oil - perhaps up to the  52 fl oz you mention - maybe I swapped them at some time without realizing? If anyone can check a dipstick that is original to the larger block engine, it would be interesting (and helpful) to know what number it is.

 

I don't suppose it really matters much, but it would be nice to know what dipstick is supposed to go with which type of engine, and how much oil each should have. 

I neglected to add the dipstick number, sorry, it's a "61"!

 

It also occurred to me that 5ubtle's 1-3/4 inch below the crank center sounds way to high. Wouldn't the oil tend to wind around the crank causing "windage" and foaming since the crank is splashing through the oil level rather than just the dipper?

 

DAC



#14 5ubtle OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2015 - 05:59 PM

Fill level is about 2" above bottom of block, 2-3/4" below crank center.

 

Thank you MFDAC for keeping me honest.  I was very surprised by the 1" difference in oil level below the crank center (between you and I).  I rechecked my measurements and I had made a major bumble in the dipstick length measurement.  Here are my new measurements:

 

My dipstick is 13-5/8" long (from the tube sealing surface inside the cap to the tip of the dipstick).  The measurement that I reported above was 13.0".  This dipstick has a cap which is threaded on.  It takes 1 complete turn to tighten the dipstick.

 

The top of the hatched fill mark  on the dipstick is 1.0" from the tip.  No correction from above.

 

My dipstick tube is 6.5" long.  No correction from above.  This is exposed length of the tube after being screwed into the block.

 

The sealing surface at the top of the dipstick tube is 14-7/8" above the frame (when installed in the block).  The measurement that I reported above was 15.0". 

 

With these two corrections, it puts my oil level at 2-1/2" below crank center (2-1/4" above the bottom of the block).

 

Oil level at 2-1/2" or 2-3/4" below crank center makes a lot more sense for an engine with a 2-7/8" stroke when compared to 1-3/4" below crank center.

 

Your measurements are probably more accurate than mine because my engine is installed with the guard and muffler in place.  Because of the "stuff in the way", my measurement error could be as much as 1/4"

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