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Final Ignition issue.


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#1 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 07:48 PM

I'm hoping this will be the last issue in getting my tractor running reliably, its sure being a lot more temperamental than my classic cars.

 

I removed the engine a couple of weeks ago, in running order to replace the gearbox cover gasket and give it a good clean up. Now reinstalled the damn thing refuses to start - Specifically it has an intermittent/weak spark. I have had it idling briefly but for all intents and purposes it won't start. 

A few points on what i have done - When reinstalling the gear cover, i have checked the timing marks on the camshaft/crankshaft are correct. I have removed the breaker box contents and cleaned all parts. Points are set to 18 although i have tried them on 20 as well. Wiring is new and good. Spark plug is near new and gapped properly.

 

The only thing i have not done is remove the flywheel to inspect the magneto. It was working fine a couple of weeks ago so i feel its unlikely to have gone bad in that short a time. I did hose/degrease the engine so the only thing i have in mind is surface rust on the magnets perhaps.

 

Any thoughts are welcomed.



#2 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 08:24 PM

You might want to remove the wires from the points and check continuity with them closed , one new set and one set that I filed didn't have continunity until I cleaned them with Brakeclean one other set was fine just filing and pulling a piece of clean paper through .
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#3 gardentractornut OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 08:28 PM

Yeah, I would think that the magnets maybe rusted. Try that first and see what happens.


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#4 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 08:36 PM

Point wires will be fine (made them up brand new yesterday). Old ones were rugged. Might have to take the flywheel it seems.



#5 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 09:02 PM

Wisconsin engines are very sensitive to ignition timing.  .....The most accurate way to set this timing is with a continuity light or continuity tester.  .....This procedure is recommended by Wisconsin and is explained in the Wisconsin manual, which can be found in the Manuals forum.

 

As  Al said, make sure the contact surfaces are clean, and any oxidation is removed.

 

Another thing to check is the nylon or fiber insulating bushings where the stud passes through the iron casting.  .....Worn bushings, moisture or debris at this point can affect spark if the stud is grounding to the block.

 

The copper strip connecting the points to the stud may be cracked, or not making good contact at both ends. 

 

Sometimes the ignition can ground out when the breaker box cover is installed.  .....If you have a good spark without the cover, but lose the spark when the cover is installed, you can insulate the cover by putting some electrical tape inside the cover.

 

If there is a crack or split in the magneto coil, moisture may have been introduced.

 

As others have said, check & clean the flywheel magnets.


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#6 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 09:20 PM

They sure are Bruce - The breaker box i think we can eliminate as the issue - I have insulated the cover and have been trying it without the cover on anyway. have stripped it, cleaned very thoroughly and cleaned all parts. Points, condenser and wiring is near new and was working fine. Nylon bushes are in good condition. I don't have a copper strip connecting my stud to points - i have a 1 1/2' or so section of wire with crimped connectors on. Just replaced the wire. I wonder if wire rather than copper is creating some issue?


Edited by MichaelBeck, August 03, 2015 - 09:21 PM.


#7 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 09:32 PM

I don't have a copper strip connecting my stud to points - i have a 1 1/2' or so section of wire with crimped connectors on. Just replaced the wire. I wonder if wire rather than copper is creating some issue?

 

The wire is OK, if done properly, it is just as good as the copper strip.

 

I don't remember which model tractor or engine you have.   .....Some of my comments are specific to engines using the YQ-12 points.



#8 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 09:41 PM

The engine is question is a Wisconsin S8D fitted to a Bolens 800


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#9 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2015 - 09:54 PM

I would suggest a new condenser as they can and do fail without preamble.
Usually, they are considered a cheap change out and have driven more than one Saint to curse trying to troubleshoot.
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#10 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted August 04, 2015 - 04:47 AM

Are you getting a good connection from the engine chassis side of the points back to the - battery terminal?


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#11 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

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Posted August 04, 2015 - 05:07 AM

Going to do a continuity check tomorrow JDBRian and will report back.



#12 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted August 04, 2015 - 09:33 AM

Are you getting a good connection from the engine chassis side of the points back to the - battery terminal?

Magneto ignition on Michael's tractor, so battery is only used for starting, not ignition.



#13 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

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Posted August 05, 2015 - 09:00 PM

Hi folks - checked continuity with points closed - All good. Have static timed engine with said light to perfect accuracy -  timing mark lines up exactly. Magnets cleaned and key checked. 

Spark plug tester still indicates a weak current - Swap it out for a plug grounded to engine and no a flicker at all. 

My thoughts are turning to the condenser (despite being new) playing up - What do you think?



#14 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted August 06, 2015 - 07:55 AM

 

My thoughts are turning to the condenser (despite being new) playing up - What do you think?

 

Sometimes, a new condenser is no good.

 

Is the sparkplug wire molded into the coil, or is it removable?  .....Is it grounding out through a break in its insulation?

 

Your magneto coil may be faulty.   ....A coil tester is the best way to test that, but most people don't have one.  ....If you have an ohm meter, you can test the coil for open circuits and shorts, but that is not as accurate as the coil tester, which actually tests the coil's ability to fire under load.

 

Using an ohm meter:

(1) Connect the test leads of the meter together.  ....You should get a zero reading.  ....If no, re-calibrate if possible. 

 

(2) Disconnect the wire coming from the coil at the breaker box.  .....Connect one test lead to the coil wire. ....Connect the other test lead to a clean ground on the engine.  .....This tests the primary windings of the coil.

 

Your meter should indicate a resistance reading of a few ohms.  .....An open circuit (infinity reading) is not good.  .....A reading of zero ohms is not good either, as that indicates a shorted primary circuit. (try a different range on the meter).

 

(3) To test the secondary windings of the coil, connect one test lead to the spark plug terminal at the end of the plug wire.  ....Connect the other test lead to a clean ground on the engine.  (This assumes the plug wire is molded into the coil.)

 

Your meter should indicate a resistance reading of many ohms.  .....An open circuit (infinity reading) is not good.  .....A reading of zero ohms is not good, either (try a different range on the meter).

 

I have seen proper ohm readings listed somewhere, but I do not remember them offhand.  ...If I find them again, I'll post them, if no one else beats me to it.


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#15 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

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Posted August 11, 2015 - 12:10 AM

Think i have found the issue - a massive break in the insulation meaning the HT lead is grounding out = no spark! 

So the next question - i already have a new HT on the way so how does this old one come out of the stator - does it unscrew or is it glued?

 

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