Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Breaker Box thrust pin not moving


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

MichaelBeck
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 69804
  • 89 Thanks
  • 111 posts
  • Location: New Zealand

Posted August 02, 2015 - 01:16 AM

In trouble shooting my ignition i am noticing the thrust pin that actuates the points isn't moving in or out when i turn the engine over - I can slide the pin in and out with my fingers so it is free.

Anyone had this issue before and knows the cause?



#2 MH81 ONLINE  

MH81

    Proud to be Deplorable

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 802
  • 27,206 Thanks
  • 28,581 posts
  • Location: N. W. PA

Posted August 02, 2015 - 06:27 AM

What make / model engine?
Those rods don't move very much, are you certain it's not moving?

#3 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

Bruce Dorsi

    Old, but not dead -- yet!

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1525
  • 3,166 Thanks
  • 2,142 posts
  • Location: New Jersey

Posted August 02, 2015 - 07:15 AM

Wisconsin engine ???

 

Try holding the pin against the camshaft (push-in and hold) as you rotate the flywheel through at least 2 complete revolutions.  ......There should be a small point in the rotation where the push rod moves very slightly.


  • MichaelBeck said thank you

#4 LilysDad ONLINE  

LilysDad

    Cat Lover

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 10443
  • 9,592 Thanks
  • 7,652 posts
  • Location: N. Illinois, DeKalb County

Posted August 02, 2015 - 07:26 AM

If it really is not moving the points, either you have a worn pin (hopefully) or a worn lobe.


  • MichaelBeck said thank you

#5 grattone ONLINE  

grattone
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 66237
  • 222 Thanks
  • 167 posts
  • Location: Stanleytown, Va.

Posted August 02, 2015 - 07:28 AM

On my 10 hp Briggs it was every 4th turn and I found it easier to use a ohm meter to see it open. I could not feel it open .020 on my old hands is hard to detect.


  • MichaelBeck said thank you

#6 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

Bolens 1000

    DR. Bolens

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7
  • 12,668 Thanks
  • 17,196 posts
  • Location: Western NY

Posted August 02, 2015 - 08:26 AM

As the others mentioned it hardly moves, only real way to see it is with the points attached or hold in in with your hand and you will feel them push out.


  • MichaelBeck said thank you

#7 chieffan ONLINE  

chieffan
  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62695
  • 6,134 Thanks
  • 4,485 posts
  • Location: SW Iowa

Posted August 02, 2015 - 08:38 AM

Try putting a flat end punch on the rod and turn it over several times.  Can see and feel the punch easier than the pin itself.  Use real light pressure to hold the punch in contact with the rod.


  • Bolens800uk and MichaelBeck have said thanks

#8 boyscout862 ONLINE  

boyscout862
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 8923
  • 9,743 Thanks
  • 7,515 posts
  • Location: N.E. Connecticut

Posted August 02, 2015 - 08:39 AM

If your hands are not sensitive(like mine) the best way is with a dial indicator. Set it up with the points plunger pushed all the way in and the indicator in line with it. Slowly turn the engine over and watch for movement of the guage. The plunger only moves 1/3 to 1/2 as much as the points gap. Take some pics as you do it and post them with the results. Good Luck, Rick


Edited by boyscout862, August 02, 2015 - 08:40 AM.

  • MichaelBeck said thank you

#9 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

MichaelBeck
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 69804
  • 89 Thanks
  • 111 posts
  • Location: New Zealand

Posted August 02, 2015 - 03:00 PM

Yep  i hear what you are saying - i have the points attached and they don't open/close. Absoulutly baffling as its simply a pin actuated off the cam. Im prepared to rule out wear on the lobe or pin as it was working correctley 2weeks ago before i opened the gear cover and did the head gasket. I wonder if the pin is dry and isnt returning and thus appearing as if its not operating. Going to deal with it this morning and we will see. Thanks for the replies.


  • boyscout862 said thank you

#10 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

Bruce Dorsi

    Old, but not dead -- yet!

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1525
  • 3,166 Thanks
  • 2,142 posts
  • Location: New Jersey

Posted August 03, 2015 - 05:29 AM

 i have the points attached and they don't open/close. Absoulutly baffling as its simply a pin actuated off the cam. Im prepared to rule out wear on the lobe or pin as it was working correctley 2weeks ago before i opened the gear cover and did the head gasket.

 

Are these new points?   ......I have encountered new point sets which would not open because the adjusting slot was not long enough.

 

A small amount of filing made the slot long enough to get proper adjustment.


  • Bolens 1000, MH81, Alc and 1 other said thanks

#11 Toolfoole OFFLINE  

Toolfoole

    New Member

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 8230
  • 230 Thanks
  • 133 posts
  • Location: Doylestown, PA

Posted August 03, 2015 - 08:37 AM

I am having the same problem with the Kohler K582 in my HT23. The engine died in January, but I've only just yesterday gotten the chance to start working on the tractor. In the mean time I've had time to research the possibilities of what may be causing the problem.

 

Caution: If you hear any unusual (bad) noises, don't crank the engine! You may cause more damage. Turn the engine carefully by hand. Removing the spark plug/s will make that easier. I do not hear any unusual noises when I crank my engine, so I didn't think it would be a problem to do so during my diagnosis.

 

The point breaker on the Kohler K-series opposed-twin engines are mounted on the governor and are opened and closed by a pin actuated by a cam inside the governor. I had checked for movement of the pin with a dial indicator while cranking the engine and there was no movement at all, even though the pin was not stuck. I removed the pin and there was no sign of wear on either end. There is an inspection port above the governor gear, so I removed the plug and looked in there while cranking the engine and saw that it did not rotate. Since the governor gear is directly intermeshed with the camshaft gear, which in turn is directly intermeshed with the crankshaft gear, there are only a few possibilities as to why the governor is not turning. I proceeded to remove the valve covers and discovered that the valves were not moving either when cranking the engine. This indicates that the camshaft is not turning. I performed a compression check earlier (when the engine first died) and did get readings on both cylinders, so I know that the crankshaft is turning and that the pistons are moving.

 

Some possible causes:

 

1. Sheared crankshaft gear key - good possibility

2. Failed crankshaft gear - less likely (steel gear)

3. Crankshaft end (with gear) broken off - unlikely

4. Sheared camshaft gear key - unlikely (if gear is plastic)

5.Failed camshaft gear - best possibility (camshaft gears in later Kohler K-series engines are made of plastic and have been known to fail, early engines had steel gears. My engine had been replaced with a new one in 2000, so is therefore a later engine.)

6. Broken camshaft - unlikely

 

I have not disassembled my engine yet, but I pray that it is a failed plastic cam gear or a sheared key and not something more serious. I have already acquired a used steel cam gear to replace the plastic one. No matter what, in either case, I intend to replace the plastic gear with the steel one.

 

I'll let you know how I make out (hopefully soon).

 

Check out all the things that I have.

 

Good luck!

 


  • Alc, LilysDad, Paulgo and 1 other said thanks

#12 MichaelBeck OFFLINE  

MichaelBeck
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 69804
  • 89 Thanks
  • 111 posts
  • Location: New Zealand

Posted August 03, 2015 - 07:36 PM

I  had no nasty noises either, i turned it over slowly by hand first though. I've now resolved it, i appeared we had a small amount of dirt under the pin on the bushing preventing free movement, a through clean with cotton buds and carb cleaner have resolved it, now works as it should.


  • Alc said thank you

#13 Toolfoole OFFLINE  

Toolfoole

    New Member

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 8230
  • 230 Thanks
  • 133 posts
  • Location: Doylestown, PA

Posted August 04, 2015 - 08:02 PM

Glad to hear you found your problem and it turned out to be an easy fix.






Top