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Small GT Loader - Who will build me one?


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#16 wvbuzzmaster ONLINE  

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Posted August 01, 2015 - 06:51 PM

I don't have CAD or know how to use the program if I had it.  I simply mocked things up, then held things in place, then put in measurements to see if it would work when I built mine.


My goal is not to lift 6 feet high, rather somewhere between 3-4 feet. I will have the Farmall 140 if I need a higher lifting loader.

I'm trying to not need more steel. (still gathering though). The blue box tubing is 2"x2"x1/4" and the rusty box tubing is 2.5"x2.5"x1/4". What should I use across the bottom under my uprights? Channel iron, box tubing, rectangle tubing, size?

#17 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted August 01, 2015 - 07:01 PM

Rectangle underneath is my preference, but square would work.  Rectangular keeps depth shallow under frame though.  Any 2" or larger with 1/4" walls is plenty strong.  Just be sure to weld strong plate to the lower bracket to mount on frame sides and make them at least 8" long.  The longer spreads the loads & reduces stress/twist.


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#18 wvbuzzmaster ONLINE  

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Posted August 01, 2015 - 09:19 PM

More measuring and steel searching.
Design will have 24" between the uprights.
The steel hunt is going good and bad. I found a 2"x5"x1/4" rectangle tubing.... However... It is being used as a support for something, so will need to either find something else or figure out how to get that chunk out lol.

#19 wvbuzzmaster ONLINE  

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Posted August 07, 2015 - 01:58 AM

Steel search going well. Math is not...
Found a piece of steel like I wanted (2"x5"x1/4").
I need math help based on my current geometry. I had statics in college, as well as dynamics, but I can't seem to figure this out as it applies to loaders and selecting final lift cylinder size.
I'm looking at 12" stroke cylinders of either 1.5" or 2" bore from Surpluscenter.com with ball joint ends that measure 19.25" center to center closed. Based on my kitchen floor, ruler, yard stick, tape measure engineering I have calculated roughly 42" of lift height (my goal). What I need is someone with some skills to figure out the math I am not understanding. Lift capacity of each cylinder bore based on my pumps relief setting is 9400 pounds for a pair of 2" cylinders and 5200 pounds for a pair of 1.5" cylinders. Can anyone help with this math? Thanks in advance.

#20 wvbuzzmaster ONLINE  

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Posted August 07, 2015 - 03:41 PM

Anyone know the math i seek?

Edited by wvbuzzmaster, August 07, 2015 - 09:04 PM.


#21 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted August 07, 2015 - 04:11 PM

Casey, I haven't had time to work this all up! I'm heading out to work before 7AM.


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#22 wvbuzzmaster ONLINE  

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Posted August 07, 2015 - 09:07 PM

I'm tossing around an idea of quick detach of the loader setup (at the uprights) by use of two 6 inch tall 3"x3"x3/16" box tubing on the lower crosstube to slip the uprights into and pin. Thoughts?

#23 bryan 110 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 07, 2015 - 09:22 PM

Our quick tach older has two pins about 2 1/2 inch tapered to a point and 6 (I think) bolts. 1pin for the front. I if I was to build a quick tach for a gt would bolt it to the undercarriage with a plate and same thing with the angle supports. Then you can use the supports to support the loader so you don't need to manual pick it up just a drive in thing....
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#24 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted August 07, 2015 - 09:27 PM

A quick detach loader is nice for the man with one tractor ,,,,, but how many do you have ?
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#25 wvbuzzmaster ONLINE  

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Posted August 07, 2015 - 09:34 PM

Enough to weld the loader to the tractor solid and not run out of tractors... But still, the theory is that with the quick detach loader I can do other stuff with the tractor if needed... Or even service the hard to reach places on the machine as opposed to working around the loader all the time...

#26 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted August 08, 2015 - 05:33 AM

One of the easiest ways , any there are many I'm sure would be to mount the loader cylinders with the rod end to the uprights so the hoses and cylinders would stay with the arms , but that would make 2 pins on each side to remove not as quick as you might want . On my PK the factory has quick fittings on just the bucket tilt hoses and the cylinder for the arms stay on the frame but they tell you to tie them up when you take the loader off . Never did it but that's another option .

#27 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted August 08, 2015 - 06:15 AM

I see 2 major issues with this project, the pump and the steel selection.

 

The pump.

 

The Vickers vane pumps as used for power steering come with a built in flow control and pressure relief valve. Somewhere between 1200-1800 rpm, they typically deliver full flow, and the flow rate does not change from that point with more speed due to the flow control. Precision lifting or lowering at low engine rpm ain't happening. With a 1:1 pulley ratio, engine idle will result in about 5 gpm flow unless the pump has been modified from the more normal 2 gpm unit as found in a GM car in which case, 7.5 gpm won't happen until 4100 rpm.

 

If it is a modified car power steering pump, it might actually be satisfactory. The flow rates across the board will work, but now your choce is slow tractor speed, or overcontrolling the hydraulics due to excessive flow and small cylinders. Neither is acceptable.

 

Steel.

 

Quarter inch wall tube is heavy, and the weight of a typical loader is balanced on the front axle. Along with the normal weight of the tractor that normally lands on the front axle, and the weight of the loader (and bucket) that all lands on the axle, comes the payload in the bucket, and something in the order of 60-65% of the payload weight that come from the countering weight at the rear of the tractor to keep the whole thing in balance. That is 300 lb of tractor, 300 lb of loader, 300 lb of payload, and 200 lb of counterweight, or 1100 lb of load on the front tires and spindles. Narrow tires tend to make ruts and get difficult to steer with that kind of load.

 

One eightth wall seems to work well for most GT loaders for the arms and posts. Use 3/16" plate for any gussets required.

 

Other aspects:

 

- Math.

 

It's all about triangles and the sine of certain angles. For a triangle formed by the post, the cylinder, and the arm, use the pin holes for the apexes of the triangle. Fill in the blanks of this triangle calculator and hit Compute. Multiply the Sine of the angle formed by the cylinder and the arm by the calculated force of the cylinder to find the effective force available.

 

From this point, you can continue to break down the loader dimensions into triangles and continue the calculations, or do it the easy (although slightly less accurate) way by using ratios. Place a long scrap of lumber on the ground under the arm and drop a plumb bob from the post to arm pin, the cylinder to arm pin, the bucket to arm pin, the center of the bucket, and the cutting edge of the bucket. The ratio between the post and cylinder pin length and the post to any of the other points will give you the multiplier for calculating the lift force from the effective cylinder force at each of the other points. eg. If the post to cylinder pin length is 20" and the post to bucket center is 60", the ratio is 3:1 or 1/3 of the effective cylinder force is available for lifting payload.

 

Notes:

 

-This is a theoretical calculation and does not take into consideration the weight of the loader and its individual parts which will downgrade the calculated payload capability.

 

- All dimensions and forces change as the arms are raised. Typically, calculations are done at zero lift, c.50% lift, and 100% lift heights.

 

- Torque.

 

Loaders require ballasting and counterweight. The added weight allows a marked increase in torque application at the rear wheels which puts a strain on the frame to axle connection. A subframe that directs this torque from the axle directly to the post's crossmember is highly recommended.

 

For additional suggestions, check out this thread.


Edited by TUDOR, August 08, 2015 - 11:52 PM.

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#28 wvbuzzmaster ONLINE  

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Posted August 08, 2015 - 12:16 PM

I am not too concerned yet.
I have selected all components based on price and availability. In other words, the first expense I will have is the lift cylinders. The pump, 2 spool valve, majority of the steel (no plate yet), and much of the the hydraulic hoses are already surplus items from other projects and or were given to me by others. The 1/4" steel may be heavier than needed, but I own it already, and I have limited welding skills, and 1/4" won't burn thru as easily. Additionally, the 1/4" will give me confidence during loader usasge. I will take your thoughts and concerns into consideration as I build, but don't be surprised if I build it how I see it in my head right now. If Kenny starts to render it in sketchup and points out a major flaw before the build, I will deal with it, but so far I'm 85% confident in my current design.
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#29 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted August 08, 2015 - 02:15 PM

Not a problem. Use what you have. It will work. At least you now have a bit more knowledge and understanding of what the results will be. :thumbs:


Edited by TUDOR, August 08, 2015 - 11:59 PM.

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#30 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted August 08, 2015 - 06:04 PM

I'm not sure if I can get something drawn up, Casey! Up to my ears with the AlFord project.


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