It'd be a lot of trouble but you are worth it!
I'll be sure to take some.
ya, your just that kind of a team player.
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Posted July 27, 2015 - 04:56 PM
It'd be a lot of trouble but you are worth it!
I'll be sure to take some.
ya, your just that kind of a team player.
Posted August 02, 2015 - 05:20 PM
Been tearing parts off this afternoon. With nice access plates on the sides of the crankcase I figured I'd take those off and look a lil deeper.
The engine was still tight and I wanted to keep it that way. The thought process was I could find what releases the tightness when I removed the guilty part.
First order of business was to install the window unit A/C in the shop. Work has kept me so busy this year I haven't been doing much else and I'm really struggling this summer with the heat and humidity. Once the air was in and 220 volts applied, I was ready.
I used the carryall on the Ferguson TO30 to move the Utilitor. Throttle had to be wide open for the three point to lift all that cast iron, but it worked.
Here is a shot of the top of the engine. The red bracket held with head bolts holds the gas tank and hood combo. The center bolt on the red bracket [the rear head bolt] had a gas cap sitting on it when I pulled the tank off. The cap was painted up nice. I bet when the tractor was being assembled they looked high and low for that gas cap, never finding what happened to it.
Inside the shop, I laid the machine on its left side, right on the concrete floor. Pulled the belt pulley off which mounts to the right flywheel. Each wheel has a flywheel in the center. Here is some detail.
Once the belt pulley was off I could see the large hex nut holding the flywheel on. With some studying [lots of studying] I figured out that the flywheel nut had a flange under a lip on the flywheel and unscrewing the nut also pulled the flywheel off the crankshaft. It had a built-in puller!!! I sprayed some PB Blaster around the nut and in the access holes on the side and was surprised at how easily it all came off. Had the MRS. on the 3/4 drive socket-ratchet combo while I tried to hold the engine from turning. Remember, I was trying to keep the engine tight and didn't want it to turn. In the process the engine turned just a couple of degrees and loosened right up. Guess the engine not being that tight is a good thing, but I didn't want it free at this point. Flywheels weigh only about 30-35 pounds. They are thinner on the backside than I figured they'd be.
With the flywheel off I could see the wheel. With a very large strange flat castle nut of sorts, the wheel came right off. The wheel rides on a large bushing and there is a bull gear drive to propell the machine. Weighed the wheel/rim assembly. 90 pounds!
View once the wheel is off. This sheetmetal skirt keeps dirt out of the bull gears.
4 bolts later I can finally see the access plates that get into the goody. The crank main bearing is very good so i took off the cam plate. All is good there as well.
Where the pinion gear is, hopefully will get me into the clutch pinion so I can assess that area.
That is where my body said enough for today. I killed the air-co and headed for the house.
More to follow
Doug T or anyone..... How do I get the pinion drive gear off? Can't go any deeper until that gear is out of the way.
Edited by Gtractor, August 03, 2015 - 07:25 AM.
Posted August 03, 2015 - 09:29 AM
That gear usually isn't real tight on the shaft. A pair of screwdrivers under each side usually brings it off. worsdt case would be a bearing splitter and puller. There is just a woodruff key on the shaft.
Posted August 03, 2015 - 10:10 PM
So far, I can't get the pinion gear off. It looks like someone battered the end of the shaft to help hold the gear on. I can't get a puller under the gear to pull - not enough clearance. I did get a screwdriver under it on both sides but it wouldn't move. I did get a ball joint fork tool under one side just a lil ways. Afraid its going to break the cast flange.
It was leaking a little engine oil out of that flange gasket so I wonder if it wasn't removed during the restore. If not thats definately where I need to be looking for the internal problem.
Posted August 04, 2015 - 07:33 AM
Maybe try taking a flat disc grinder and face it off a little to take the mushroom off the shaft. If you have a harbor freight store close, the bearing splitter/puller kits are reasonable priced and will work in your situation. the halves are thin and will pull under the gear enough to grab it then mount the puller to the halves and pull it off.
I don't think your problem will be there. That shaft isn't turning when the tractor is sitting still. The fact that you turn it backwards a little and it instantly becomes loose doesn't sound like a bearing to me. it puts me in mind of something getting out of place and binding. Then when it turns back it repositions itself. It will be interesting to see what you find. The clutch set up is basically the same as the picturs I posted in Jamie's Beeman thread. the big difference is that it has a second fork the moves the big drive gear.
Posted August 04, 2015 - 06:57 PM
Kris, It might be better to not worry about the gear yet. You might be better off to take the 2 bolts out of the caps that go into the oil pan, Take the other side apart and just take the pan bolts out that go into the oil pan. i would probably bolt the other main brg back on for support too. Filp it up on its head, take the rest of the pan through bolts out(4?) and wiggle the oil pan out. That would hold the relationship of all the shafts. You might have to loosen the other bolts slightly to let the pan come up but i'd try to do it staying as fixed as possible. The fact that it frees up when turned backwards might make it correct itself if the shafts flop apart.
Posted August 04, 2015 - 08:57 PM
All great ideas Doug, thanks so much. Guess I'll be working that way.
No time tonight to work on it. I had nearly 15 hours of holding the steering wheel today in my "part time" job.
About 3:00 this morning my mind got to wandering. I wonder if it'd lock up while driving? Never tried it that way. It was always sitting still with the clutch lever locked back. ....... Maybe its "throwout bearing" is the problem?
Recon that'd change anything?
Posted August 07, 2015 - 10:39 PM
Thursday of this week found me in the company pickup driving through Kansas City. Much easier to find a parking spot than the Peterbilt I usually drive.
I somehow found myself smack dab in front of a Harbor Freight Tools so I figured I'd saunder inside and low and behold:
This followed me outside.
My sister got me a gift card from HF for my birthday so the cash outlay was $zero with a little left over.
She's a pretty good sis.
Tonight I put it to good use and the gear came off relatively easy.
Doug was right, not that there was any doubt, and there was nothing to see under that flange.
I had to go ahead and remove the gear and flange as I'd removed the 4 flange bolts and broken the restorers 'silicone' seal. Now I can seal that back up properly when I go back together.
Here is a pic of the flange. It appears to have whats left of an old school rope seal around the shaft. I covered the flash for the pic so it didn't bleach out the detail. A little dark but easier to see this way.
Is the seal seperate? Could I get a modern rubber seal from the auto parts store providing I get the old grey haired guy that can measure the ID/OD of the seal and look in the book?
Posted August 08, 2015 - 04:16 AM
I have that gear puller set. Only issue are the insert tips being very soft and mushrooming. Good luck with the seal!
Posted August 08, 2015 - 06:27 AM
I wondered about those tips myself. Used the flat bottom one as I figure the pointed tip would mushroom out right off. It crawled around a lot but got the job done. It may be distorted and stuck in there already.
They sure put coarse threads on the puller.
Posted August 09, 2015 - 11:11 PM
Well the seal part of the flange from post 38 wasn't removable. It could be machined for a modern seal setup but I'm not that picky.
I found the rope seal to not be bad at all so I removed it and installed a thin rubber "O" ring in the bottom of its groove and then reinstalled the rope seal. That will hold it tighter on the shaft and seal better than it was doing.
Today I put everything back together. I wanted to lock the engine up again before tearing into the other side which meant I'd have to run it.
After I took the picture of the rod cap/oil slinger for the Beeman thread I torqued the bolts and installed the cotter pins and made a new seal for the rod access plate. With that bolted on I gave it a very generous drink of new oil in preperation of starting the engine.
While laying on its side for the past week the left side main bearing got a real good soaking of oil and I over filled the engine by a bunch. Put 2 and 1/2 quarts in there. I think thats at least a quart too much.
The engine fired up and ran like a dream. One minute, two minutes, three minutes......
At the three minute mark I had to shut it down because the radiator was empty. While banging around on the tractor I hit my knee on the rad drain that was broken off when I got the tractor. It was only J.B. Welded on so the slightest tap and it came loose.
With that re-J.B.'d I put in some water and fired it up again - for 7 minutes this time!
NO sign of it locking up.
Oil was blowing out the muffler and the tractor was covered with dark oil spots. Maybe I should have used non-detergent oil. Its a wonder the sparkplug didn't foul. Oil everywhere. I drained the oil, it didn't look good. Very dirty for no longer than it was run and some very small particles.
With new oil once again and not so much of it this time I killed the shop air-co and swung the doors open. I had to get outdside as the shop was very smokey. Ran it all over the yard and around the circle drive for a full, timed, 25 minutes. The muffler was full of oil so its still blowing oil on me and the tractor but no sign of locking up.
Noticed the top rad hose was spewing all my water out and it looks like the head gasket didn't totally seal but its hard to tell for sure because the exhaust is blowing so much oil.
I guess something was dry from so many years of sitting in the museum and thats why it was locking up. ???
The leather belt for the fan is too long so the fan blade wasn't turning fast enough to suit me. Figured it would get hot so at the 25 minute mark I drove it back in the shop and dropped the oil once again.
Kind of baffles me but It was actually fun to see what was inside and how its made.
It'll get some more run time this week and IF everything checks out with a major cleanup it'll be ready for its first show this weekend.
to all those with suggestions! Especially Doug. Its great to have someone thats been there and done that.
I may or may not be out of the woods yet....
Posted August 09, 2015 - 11:32 PM
Posted August 10, 2015 - 06:03 AM
I wondered about that Casey.
Nothing looked like the culprit on the right side and with a good drink of oil to the left side, things are working now.
I'll try to remember to take a pic of all the oil it blew out the muffler before I clean it up.
Posted August 10, 2015 - 08:11 PM
Ran it 25 minutes tonight non-stop with no problems. After dinner I ran it another 20 minutes. So far so good.
The oil is filthy!!! Here is a shot of the oil/sludge from the bottom of the drain pan. I had already drained the oil from the drain pan, this is what settled out - sitting overnight.
I hope this is not from something disintegrating inside!! There were actually three oil changes in this pan [all from this engine] and I know the engine was dirty inside. The pan was clean at the start. I'm changing the oil for the fourth time now.
The specks in the sediment is very small metal chunks. They were in there from the first oil change. No new chunks in subsequent changes, best I can tell.
Here is the shot of the oil-covered engine.
Also having trouble with the spark plug not sealing. Its tight and blowing compression and also oil out and all over the head while running. I know the engine smokes some and hope it mostly goes away with some run time. Its already much better now that the oil level is down where its supposed to be.
Posted August 10, 2015 - 09:08 PM
Getting better. This is from the fourth oil change. Still terrible dirty but no chunks. This also didn't sit overnight and settle out like the other pic. I cleaned the pan real good before this oil drain. 45 minutes run time on this oil.
Thinking about filling it up with diesel and letting that soak a while.