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Case 444 - Kohler Engine Removal Process?

kohler 321a case 444 case

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#1 mkow1234 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 08:53 AM

Hello Folks,

 

Can somebody walk me through the process for removing the engine from a Case 444 graden tractor?

 

I recently worked on the carbueretor , and I got the engine running -- briefly.

It ran on high idle for about twenty seconds, and before I could turn the key off, it stopped - I mean stopped abruptly.

I thought that meant something seized up, but the pulley turns freely. I don't think my departed Father-in-L:aw was big on engine maintenance, and it is doubtful if anybody bothered changing the oil in this thing before I came along.

 

Now, I'd like to remove the engine from the tractor; then, I'd either take the engine to somebody for work, or more likely, I'd take a look at it myself. Can somebody walk me through the process of removing the engine, so I don't screw anything up?

 

It looks like the engine sits on two frame rails, with two large bolts on each side.

What about removing the doo-hickey on the front, that controls the belt for the mower deck? How does that come off?

What about disconnecting the engine from the hydraulic pump?

Looks like there's a couple of 1/2" bolts in there, and clearance looks tight, so it's definitely for a good crescent wrench.

Anything unique I need to be aware of?

How about removing the muffler?

I don't have any air impact tools, but I think I may need something like that -- or at least, a torch.

 

As for the engine itself, the things I suspect are: broken connecting rod, bent valve push rod, etc.

It's broken already, so I don't think I can break it any worse than it already is.

I've torn down and replaced basic components in engines once or twice before, so I feel I can at least look it over -- and then take it to a pro, if necessary.

 

Thanks for any/all advice on this matter.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Case 444 - engine profile - with items circled.png

Edited by mkow1234, June 22, 2015 - 08:55 AM.


#2 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 09:38 AM

Don't pull the engine until you have diagnosed the problem. Stopping suddenly could just be running out of gas in the carb or the ignition failing. Download the manuals for the tractor and the manual for the engine. Read through the troubleshooting guide which will take you step by step through the proper diagnosis proceedure. Make sure the rod or grenade gears didn't let go. Once you have defined the problem go to the section on how to fix it. What engine is in it?

 

Note: use the right tools of good quality. Poor quality tools will damage the bolt heads and can slip and damage you. Rules of wrenches: use good quality, keep them clean and in good shape, use a socket or box wrench when possible, put them back in their proper place when finished with them. Good quality wrenches are very expensive now. Craftsman from Sears used to be very good but I hear they are from china now. I get most of mine from fleamarkets and tag sales now. Snapon, Bonney, old Craftsman, Wayne, old Husky, a half a dozen other old names I can't remember will serve you well if they are in good shape. Do not use adjustable wrenches because they tend to round the head and slip. Spraying PB Blaster on the blots can make them easier. I've had to spray some bolts for 6 months to get them off. You can also check youtube for hints.

 

Let us know how you do. Ask questions anytime. Pics help clarify. Good Luck, Rick

 

If you do need to pull the engine, rig up a lift. Doing it by hand can be dangerous to you and the machine.

 

This seems like a pretty decent guide: http://gardentractor...ing-the-engine/


Edited by boyscout862, June 22, 2015 - 09:50 AM.

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#3 mkow1234 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 10:50 AM

Thanks for the advice -- I appreciate it. I downloaded the troubleshooting guide and printed it.

 

The engine is the standard Kohler 321A, 14 HP, single cylinder.

After I cleaned the carb, it started right up and ran beautifully -- if a bit on high idle -- for maybe twenty seconds.

Then, it just stopped, seemingly in an instant.  I guess the drag of the starter pulley/belt would have made it seem more abrupt.

I don't think it threw a rod or anything severe like that, because like I said, I can turn the pulley by hand, and the motor turns.

 

I do remember that the plug wire coming from the coil was kind of suspect -- It was all frayed on the end.

I whittled down the insulation to get to the copper wire itself, so it would make a better connection witht he interior of the coil.

[Is this thing SUPPOSED to be removable from the coil, or is it supposed to be integrated with the coil?]

I guess I should at least get a new plug/coil wire -- I think the local lawnmower store has a full line of Kohler engine parts.

Since nobody ever did any maintenance on this thing before I came along, I'm thinking I should pull the cylinder head and clean all of the carbon out of there. I already have a new metal gasket for that, but I never installed it yet.

Any other recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

The real bummer is this thing sits Up North in a barn with a dirt floor -- not the greatest place to work on engines.

Thanks again.


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#4 mastifflawyer OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 11:52 AM

The plug wire is just stuck in the coil...very common.

 

The advice so far is good. No need to pull the engine until you locate the possible cause.  The 14hp Kohler is very heavy. Pulling the head is a good start. Decarbonizing is always a good idea. You can see the condition of the valves then as well.You will need to use your new head gasket.

Stopping abruptly could be caused by any number of things, so it is going to take some investigative work. Besides engine failure it could be fuel or electrical. The troubleshooting guide explains the process. If you need any more help PM me.


Edited by mastifflawyer, June 22, 2015 - 11:52 AM.


#5 Marty'70 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 04:00 PM

Note: use the right tools of good quality. Poor quality tools will damage the bolt heads and can slip and damage you. Rules of wrenches: use good quality, keep them clean and in good shape, use a socket or box wrench when possible, put them back in their proper place when finished with them. Good quality wrenches are very expensive now. Craftsman from Sears used to be very good but I hear they are from china now. I get most of mine from fleamarkets and tag sales now. Snapon, Bonney, old Craftsman, Wayne, old Husky, a half a dozen other old names I can't remember will serve you well if they are in good shape. Do not use adjustable wrenches because they tend to round the head and slip.

Something I have tried to tell to so many people and my kids over the years!! I have wrenched on stuff for a living for over 25 yrs. and for fun since I was old enough to scatter dad's tools around the garage (something I have tried to instill into my kids and soldiers to do is be organized). Good advice for us all!
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#6 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 04:45 PM

Don't take the head off if you don't have too. Get it running right and then add Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas. The MMO will slowly dissolve the carbon and lubricate the valves and piston rings. Give it time. Good Luck, Rick



#7 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 05:07 PM

Something I have tried to tell to so many people and my kids over the years!! I have wrenched on stuff for a living for over 25 yrs. and for fun since I was old enough to scatter dad's tools around the garage (something I have tried to instill into my kids and soldiers to do is be organized). Good advice for us all!

When I was an Army engineer platoon leader they needed a real engineer on South Post so I was sent TDY. When I came back, my platoon was given to an arrogant (and grossly incompetent) 1st LT. He claimed that over $15,000 worth of tools were missing. The CO (a sniveling coward) tried to get me to sign an equipment loss document(so that I would have to pay for it). I refused and exorcised my right to do an inventory. Low and behold the missing equipment was still in the trucks' tools boxes. There were a few things missing but since they had been lax in my abscence, it was to be expected. Every evening when I walked the motor pool, I would find all kinds of things left out. The CO was not happy and tried to get me for the few missing. I showed him the original SF3122 where I had hand reciepted the platoons' equipment to the PS before I left on TDY(always have an ace up your sleeve). It was then dropped.

 

I started out as a PL with a fantastic CO and some great adventures but, later I had a CO who was so bad that I had to stop a fellow PL from shooting him (He was a good PL and the CO wasn't worth it). The CO was so bad that the 1SG and the BN CSM quit. It is hard to realize that is 39 years ago.


Edited by boyscout862, June 22, 2015 - 05:07 PM.

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#8 Arti OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 05:35 PM

When you turn the pulley it isn't turning the motor over because that is actually the clutch and until it is engaged it is free to turn.

 

Does the motor turn over when you hit the starter?


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#9 mkow1234 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2015 - 10:35 AM

Thanks for all the advice.

Tractor is in Central Michigan -- I am downstate now.

I will try some things on the weekend.

 

The comment about the pulley turning due to a cl;utch being disengaged -- that doe snot make sense.

It is the same pulley that the starter motor uses, so ???

 

I think the first thing is to see if the valves and piston go up and down.

That implies pulling the cylinder head, or at least, removing the breather and seeing if the push rods move back and forth...

Then, I'll need to see if I have spark.

As the tractor never saw routine maintenance (from what I see), I think it make sense to replace at least the coil/plug wire, condensor, and points.

I'm assuming changing the pointgs means pulling the flywheel, which means pulling the fan and pulleys.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know all about decent tools.

I just have not F'd around in depth with Kohler engines.

I've pulled engines before from cheap old riding mowers, to replace components.

I've rebuilt carbs, replaced connecting rods, things of that sort.

Pulling flywheels and pulleys to me is a royal pain.

But it sounds like that can be done without removing the engine from the frame.

That would be great.

 

I'll see how motivated I get on the weekend.

Thanks again.

 

 

Posted Yesterday, 05:35 PM

When you turn the pulley it isn't turning the motor over because that is actually the clutch and until it is engaged it is free to turn.

 

Does the motor turn over when you hit the starter?

 



#10 mkow1234 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2015 - 11:02 AM

Well, I just called my local landscape equipment repair shop.

Guy said he needs specific numbers off the motor in order to look up parts.

Jeeze, all I want are a coil wire, points, and condensor.

I'll have to wait until the weekend, get up to the farm and get the engine numbers, drive back down here, wait another week.

Seriously, did Kohler have that many variations of those parts for the 321A engine?

I can't believe they would.

Anyway, the drama continues.

I'll hopefully have more news next week.

Thanks

 



#11 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2015 - 07:21 PM

It's hard to tell from photo you have older starter generator tractor Arti thought you were talking a bought pto pulley.  



#12 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2015 - 07:35 PM

I think your Dealer needs his head examined, Although there were variations between spec numbers , the common stuff like points is the same

I am a Kohler dealer and have both the Condenser and Points instock if your interested send me a PM, probably have the plug wire too. Should only take 2-3 days to get to you

 

Your contacts should be externally mounted as well and not behind the flywheel if I remember correctly







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