Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Which GT's have real hydraulics?


  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#1 thompson1600 OFFLINE  

thompson1600

    Member

  • Member
  • Member No: 2490
  • 2 Thanks
  • 39 posts
  • Location: Luck, WI

Posted March 31, 2011 - 11:01 AM

Which make and model GT tractors have real hydraulics and the HP and chassis capable of utilizing them with implements still available? Hoping to start a list of machines. Thanks

Tom

#2 olcowhand ONLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 35,651 Thanks
  • 29,840 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted March 31, 2011 - 11:04 AM

If you're speaking of a separate hydraulic system capable of running hydraulic motors, then the Colt/Case/Ingersol line may be the only one.

#3 thompson1600 OFFLINE  

thompson1600

    Member

  • Member
  • Member No: 2490
  • 2 Thanks
  • 39 posts
  • Location: Luck, WI

Posted March 31, 2011 - 11:07 AM

Guess I was thinking like the JD 445, et al. Any functional hydraulics for 3 point attachments and ability to add 3 points to rear and attachments to the front. Probably with PTO ability also.

#4 poncho62 ONLINE  

poncho62
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 42
  • 634 Thanks
  • 1,220 posts
  • Location: Hanover, Ont, Canada

Posted March 31, 2011 - 11:49 AM

Ford LGT145s -195s have hydraulic lift cylinders, that run via the Eaton trans pump....Does that count?

#5 ducky OFFLINE  

ducky

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 564
  • 1,631 Thanks
  • 3,870 posts
  • Location: Freedom, WI

Posted March 31, 2011 - 11:50 AM

Just about any tractor with Hydrostatic drive has the ability to use the charge pump for Hydraulics.

#6 thompson1600 OFFLINE  

thompson1600

    Member

  • Member
  • Member No: 2490
  • 2 Thanks
  • 39 posts
  • Location: Luck, WI

Posted March 31, 2011 - 12:14 PM

So, most any John Deere GT that has a hydrostatic transmission can run hydraulics? My GT245 has a Tuff Torque K71B hydro, how would you hook hydraulics onto that tractor for say a sleeve hitch lift (since it cannot accept a 3 point) rather than using an electric lift on the sleeve hitch?

#7 tractorgarden ONLINE  

tractorgarden

    Junk Whisperer

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 2291
  • 1,277 Thanks
  • 1,432 posts
  • Location: northwest pa

Posted March 31, 2011 - 12:41 PM

thompson, I had just parted ways with a GT-275, They are pretty much set up as a all in one design. I think that deeres tuff torq in the Gt series was the best of that style, charge pump, final all one unit. In theory the charge pump would make the pressure, but I do not think that there is a easy way to utilize the hydraulics of the all in one design. The Toro Wheel Horse, Ford, New Holland smaller gt s used a similar tuff torq But i dont think they stand up anywhere close to the ones in your Deere. I would recommend the electric lift, just my two cents. Shawn

#8 Tmo OFFLINE  

Tmo

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2023
  • 356 Thanks
  • 486 posts
  • Location: Missouri

Posted March 31, 2011 - 12:46 PM

The hydrostatic unit would have to have ports to hook up to, so not all hydrostatic drives can use it's pump to use auxiliary hydraulics. To get back to the original topic, the list for today's garden tractors would be small. John Deere X-700 series (maybe X-500 series), possibly Simplicity's Legacy, Ingersols 3000 and 4000 series and.....that could be it. I probably left one or two out, but the list would be small. Since SCUTS and CUTS have the market, manufacturers are offering less and less capable true garden tractors. Gone are the days of the John Deere 4X5, 400/420/430s, 316/318/322/330/332, etc., Cub Cadets Super Garden Tractors, etc., and etc. Today's market is a bevy of lawn tractors, garden tractors with manual lift systems, auxiliary electric lift hitches, sleeve hitches, etc., while the more serious garden tractors are the SCUTS and CUTS which are now very popular.

#9 thompson1600 OFFLINE  

thompson1600

    Member

  • Member
  • Member No: 2490
  • 2 Thanks
  • 39 posts
  • Location: Luck, WI

Posted March 31, 2011 - 12:50 PM

Thanks TMO....That was what I was originally looking for. The older nostalgic GT's that use hydraulics, not the current ones. One's that would be worth looking for to rebuild.

#10 hydriv OFFLINE  

hydriv

    Tractorholic

  • Validating
  • Member No: 256
  • 70 Thanks
  • 583 posts

Posted March 31, 2011 - 01:01 PM

No need to make a list because a list implies more than one entry.

The ONLY line of tractors that meet the requirements of the OP is the Colt/Case/Ingersoll's.

Try running a hydraulic rototiller off of the charge pump in a hydrostatic drive system and see what happens. NOTHING. It can't be done. Deere themselves know that to be true because if you buy their hydraulic tiller, you have to buy the belt-driven auxiliary hydraulic system to operate it. Case/Ingersoll tractors have a TRUE hydraulic system that is capable of delivering 8 to 10 gallons per minute at pressures up to 2500 PSI. You can run the tiller, four foot bush hog mower, four foot finishing mower hung off the three point hitch, log splitters, chipper/shredder and the best vacuum bagger ever made. Some models even had hydraulic drive decks and snow blowers.

The other brands of GT's with hydro's can operate some small cylinders but they can't run motors. And that statement applies to every John Deere, Cub Cadet, Wheelhorse, Gravely, Ford, Allis, Simplicity etc ever built.

Edited by hydriv, March 31, 2011 - 01:08 PM.


#11 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted April 01, 2011 - 07:12 PM

Hi Folks

This is my first post. In looking for a GT to restore I have been looking at a lot of the older machines for the first time. The Case /Colt/Ingersoll tractors are fundamentally different in that they are not hydrostatic drive. They have a hydraulic pump and a hydraulic motor- separate units. This seems to me to offer a lot of flexibility and perhaps better serviceability for the long term. As far as running hydraulic attachments from the pump versus conventional attachments I am not sure that is much of an advantage for me. The conventional mechanical PTO type attachments like tillers are more common and cheaper than hydraulic ones , around here at least.
For me it is more important to have available a 3 pt hitch with hydraulic lift and a PTO for attachments. I had a JDx475 and the hydraulics were very capable for my uses even though it is a hydrostatic drive system. The big JD's certainly have the size and HP to run a lot of attachments, although as others have said they were not designed to run hydraulic motors based attachments. To the OP -What is available and affordable for attachments in your area is going to be a major factor in deciding if you must limit yourself to the Case/Ingersoll tractors.

Brian

#12 caseguy OFFLINE  

caseguy

    Connoisseur of Rusty Junk

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 906
  • 1,624 Thanks
  • 5,600 posts
  • Location: Edinburg, PA

Posted April 01, 2011 - 08:17 PM

Hi Folks. This is my first post...Brian


Well then, :wave: Welcome to GTTalk! Glad to have you with us and thanks for weighing in on the subject! We hope that you enjoy the forum!

#13 hydriv OFFLINE  

hydriv

    Tractorholic

  • Validating
  • Member No: 256
  • 70 Thanks
  • 583 posts

Posted April 01, 2011 - 10:01 PM

Hi Folks

This is my first post. In looking for a GT to restore I have been looking at a lot of the older machines for the first time. The Case /Colt/Ingersoll tractors are fundamentally different in that they are not hydrostatic drive. They have a hydraulic pump and a hydraulic motor- separate units. This seems to me to offer a lot of flexibility and perhaps better serviceability for the long term. As far as running hydraulic attachments from the pump versus conventional attachments I am not sure that is much of an advantage for me. The conventional mechanical PTO type attachments like tillers are more common and cheaper than hydraulic ones , around here at least.
For me it is more important to have available a 3 pt hitch with hydraulic lift and a PTO for attachments. I had a JDx475 and the hydraulics were very capable for my uses even though it is a hydrostatic drive system. The big JD's certainly have the size and HP to run a lot of attachments, although as others have said they were not designed to run hydraulic motors based attachments. To the OP -What is available and affordable for attachments in your area is going to be a major factor in deciding if you must limit yourself to the Case/Ingersoll tractors.

Brian




Brian,
The OP's question was very clear.

Which make and model GT tractors have real hydraulics and the HP and chassis capable of utilizing them with implements still available? Hoping to start a list of machines. Thanks

Apparently, the OP isn't looking for tractors that have very limited hydraulic capabilities. I take it that he has some sort of specific purpose in mind that needs the sort of hydraulic system that is only found on CCI tractors.

As for implement availability, the OP resides in Wisconsin, which happens to be the birthplace of the Colt (Milwaukee) and the location of the manufacturing facility of Colt, Case and Ingersoll from 1963 to 2005. When seeking attachments for a Deere, you will find that to be more of a problem then you think because Deere just loved to make attachments that only fit one or two models.

Not so with Case. A H-series tiller was introduced in the early 70's but you can put it onto any Case or Ingersoll GT right up to 2011. Find me a Deere attachment (other than a wheel weight) that you can install on all models and all years.

John Deere makes a lot of very good equipment but none of it will meet the needs of the OP.

Case has had a 3 pt hitch with hydraulic lift and down pressure since 1971 along with a hydraulic PTO that needs no V belts or driveshafts. And hydraulics protect implements from damage when they are overloaded because they have a relief valve.


#14 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

Texas Deere and Horse

    RED Wild Hogs, Horses & Deeres

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1435
  • 14,464 Thanks
  • 15,392 posts
  • Location: East of San Antonio Texas

Posted April 01, 2011 - 11:01 PM

JDBrian, :welcometogttalk:



Welcome to GTtalk, The "GREATEST SITE ON EARTH" for Gt's anyway. Have fun and ask all the question you like, someone will surely answer you shortly.

As far as your question goes, Case is a different breed of Gt. There are several brands of Gt's that are fully capable of doing any type 3pt work or running a front end loader, relying on an external hydraulic pump, or the limited abilities of the hydrostatic transmission. "Hydriv" make a good point that Case is the only Gt that can run anything that requires large volume hydraulic flow to operate. So, the main thing you need to decide is, what equipment are you wanting to run and how you want to power them. Wheel Horse, not being built anymore, is one of the Gt's that could also use most of the equipment it made regardless of when they were built. Bolens is another brand that, depending on tube or large frame, their equipment would also fit on several different years. Even with John Deere, most of their stuff would work on a lot of different series of tractors.

With that being said, each brand has their advantages and disadvantages. This is a subject that will be argued between all of us to the end of time. Pick out a brand you a drawn to, and try it out for a while. If you don't like what you get out of it, sell and buy another brand.

Have fun and enjoy the sport.:itsok:
  • tractorgarden said thank you

#15 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted April 02, 2011 - 07:17 AM

Brian,
The OP's question was very clear.

Which make and model GT tractors have real hydraulics and the HP and chassis capable of utilizing them with implements still available? Hoping to start a list of machines. Thanks

Apparently, the OP isn't looking for tractors that have very limited hydraulic capabilities. I take it that he has some sort of specific purpose in mind that needs the sort of hydraulic system that is only found on CCI tractors.

As for implement availability, the OP resides in Wisconsin, which happens to be the birthplace of the Colt (Milwaukee) and the location of the manufacturing facility of Colt, Case and Ingersoll from 1963 to 2005. When seeking attachments for a Deere, you will find that to be more of a problem then you think because Deere just loved to make attachments that only fit one or two models.

Not so with Case. A H-series tiller was introduced in the early 70's but you can put it onto any Case or Ingersoll GT right up to 2011. Find me a Deere attachment (other than a wheel weight) that you can install on all models and all years.

John Deere makes a lot of very good equipment but none of it will meet the needs of the OP.

Case has had a 3 pt hitch with hydraulic lift and down pressure since 1971 along with a hydraulic PTO that needs no V belts or driveshafts. And hydraulics protect implements from damage when they are overloaded because they have a relief valve.


Hydriv

Your response seems to be a bit defensive. I did not mean to in any way disparage Case/Ingersoll tractors. I am most familiar with the capabilities of JD stuff. In doing research on other brands of GT's I was surprised to see the unique (for GT's) Hydriv implementation used by Colt and later Case/Ingersoll. As I mentioned above it is fundamentally different than a hydrostatic drive system. I am well aware of the advantages of such a system. I am using this site and MTF to gather info about different GT's so I can decide what best fits my needs. Being from Canada I have no knowledge of what attachments were available in the OP's area. Case GT's are rare here and the attachments, other than mower decks, would be even harder to find. This will be a consideration for me when I am looking for a restoration project. I thought it might also be so for the OP.

Regards
Brian




Top