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Cheap 10hp diesel engine


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#31 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 26, 2011 - 12:13 PM

there is a good case for dropping serious money on a repower for an otherwise solid and servicable machine


I agree 100%. Regarding the cold start issue can anyone tell me whether the glow plug and / or intake pre-heater is strictly designed to heat incoming air or does it also assist in atomizing the fuel?

JN

#32 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 26, 2011 - 01:31 PM

Strictly for heating the air in, or going into the combustion chamber. They need it to create combustion. Diesels are a simple concept that results in some serious power. Another issue I noticed with my generator was throttle control, it is very difficult to meter.

#33 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 26, 2011 - 04:25 PM

Strictly for heating the air in, or going into the combustion chamber. They need it to create combustion. Diesels are a simple concept that results in some serious power. Another issue I noticed with my generator was throttle control, it is very difficult to meter.


I assume you mean engine speed. A diesel does not have a throttle. The intake manifold is wide open. You control speed by varying the fuel supply. Because the diesel has no throttle it does not generate much intake vacuum. This is one factor that makes it more efficient than a gas engine. The gas engine has a higher "Pumping Loss" at small throttle openings when it is producing a lot of vacuum.

#34 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 26, 2011 - 05:50 PM

I should have said fuel meeting, anyway , the little twins and singles don't really meter it well for rpm control and you basically take away its ability to govern unless it is designed for it. Just one more thing to ponder, and a side note; Kubota and Yanmar also have this issue on some of their diesels as well, ment for power units and generators.

#35 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2011 - 08:16 AM

I suppose the reported difficulty to meter fuel (and thus engine speed) is more or less inherent to smaller engines for several reasons. First, the smaller size of the metering linkage would make incremental and fine adjustments less precise than their larger counterparts on larger engines. Second, the lower manufacturing costs required for smaller engines probably affect how precise the injector pumps and governor assemblies are designed, built and assembled.

I wonder if modifying the linkages for the governor and throttle would help. I know, it's not technically a throttle function, but throttle is the common term used for everything from gas and diesel engines and even the speed control on electric motors - I refer to the 'go' pedal on my electric golf cart as the throttle, too.

and you basically take away its ability to govern unless it is designed for it



If I understand this statement you are saying that the speed control is direct and there is no governing device between the control cable and the injector, is that correct? I would think that some type of governing feature would almost be a necessity - especially if you are doing something like plowing, tilling, etc. Without some governing feature it would seem that you would be spending your entire day just moving the throttle (fuel control) up and down.

The discussion of these various details regarding the diesel power plants is very interesting and informative. While it does not dampen my interest in transplanting a diesel engine into a GT it does provide a good idea of the things that need to be addressed and overcome.

Thanks guys!

JN

#36 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2011 - 08:38 AM

You are very welcome, and what ever you do , don't be turned off, the information is just to educate for a proper choice in power plants. I have seen one of the little diesels' powering a golfcart type rig that went very well, and had great drivability, so someone must make one with the proper fuel metering/governing assembly ?

#37 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2011 - 08:48 AM

I haven't seen any of the little diesels up close to know for sure and I may be totally off on my assumptions but if I am not mistaken diesels wouldn't have a governor and are rpm limited by the injection pump? Most of the diesels that run generators are kicked up to full throttle by a self contained throttle control? Just trying to figure all of this out.

#38 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2011 - 11:13 AM

Most, if not all off road diesels are governed mechanically in the fuel system (pump) this can be done a few different ways, but they do need to be governed. If they were not, then the rpm would be off the chart. ( #2 diesel with out additives can only produce about 5500rpm because of its flash rate), adding ether, you cannot control rpm after ignition until all the fuel that is present is used up thus causing crazy rpm for a very short time. This is why ether is bad, and that it can cause ignition way before tdc, thus raising your chances of breaking a piston or rod or even worse, a crank.

Make sure in the engine specs that it has variable rpm, and not a fixed rpm when looking ;)

#39 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2011 - 12:34 PM

Please correct my thinking if I am wrong about this. It would seem that engines with fixed RPM would only be suitable for tractors equipped with a hydrostatic or hydraulic drive. Especially in the case of an Ingersoll / Case tractor where the ground travel speed and hydraulic PTO functions are all controlled by the diversion of constantly circulating hydraulic fluid to the hydraulic travel motor or hydraulic cylinders. This would mean that the engine would constantly run in the optimum RPM range.

Do diesel engines configured to operate at a fixed RPM (3,600 RPM for example) have an idle circuit that would at least let the operator idle the engine down?

JN

#40 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2011 - 12:53 PM

The twin and single I have do not, but that's not to say others don't, mine are bare bones units with out an idle feature.

#41 RustyTub OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2011 - 01:46 PM

It is designed to assit the heating of the air. It is the heat of the air being compressed that ignites the fuel being injected into the combustion chamber. That is why diesels start easier in warmer climates. but in cold climates they run either a glow plug to heat the air while it is in the cylinder or an air intake heater.

Block heaters make it easier for the engine to turn over, the oil is warmer internal engine parts are warmer and it is easier for the engine to rotate quicker during start up. the quicker starting RPM assist in compressing the air quicker so the heat loss is less giving a quicker cold start up.

The atomizing of the fuel is controlled by the fuel injector. faulty injectors or worn injectors can cause inefficent running. poor start up and loss of power.

For example a Volkswagen Direct Injected Diesel engine has to rotate at 250 rpms under starting conditions for the engine to actually start. And to assit in this so there is less strain on the starter a block heat would be used in temps below freezing, and the glow plug indicator would stay on for a longer period of time.

#42 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2011 - 03:35 PM

This is good and useful stuff. I'm not getting turned off to diesel power at all. That said, all of this information will allow myself and others to anticipate and deal with potential issues. That is exactly what makes forums like this so great!

JN

#43 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2011 - 06:45 PM

Ok, now here are a few pics of my tractor as of tonight , this might give an idea as to how much goes into one of these jobs ;)
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  • KennyP said thank you

#44 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2011 - 08:24 PM

Keith, great job getting everything tucked in so well in your Ford diesel!

#45 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2011 - 08:38 PM

Thanks Dan , I got the decals tonight and put most of them on, got the nose and tail left. I think before I do the tail I'm going to repaint it again, as it isn't as nice as I would like it.
I've been using it and I love this tractor! It is very smooth and powerful, and does this thing pull ! I use it like a skidder it pulls sooo well !




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