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Cheap 10hp diesel engine


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#16 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 21, 2011 - 03:16 PM

Jimmy,

That is a project I am very interested in seeing come together. I have been looking at those V-twin diesels and if they run good I think they will make great power plants for a lot of GT's.

One thing I noticed on some of their websites is the fact that the engines are not EPA approved for use in this country. I wonder if ag and tractor applications are exempt to those regs? Where did you purchase your engine and what do you have invested total (price, shipping, were there duties, etc)?

Good luck with your project!

JN

#17 chopperfreak2k1 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 21, 2011 - 07:37 PM

i'm very interested as well. would like some pix if possible also?

#18 jimmymc2286 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 21, 2011 - 10:27 PM

BOSS, and chopperfreak, when I get started on it I will post pictures and a complete log of the repower. I got the engine direct from China. It cost me $1036 shipped to my house. The one I bought is EPA approved. This was for farm use so there was no duty on it. If you only buy one and have it shipped by air it is very high cost. If I were to do it again I think I would have it shipped by sea and save a lot of money. The engine is a very nice looking engine. The castings are world class, and the machining is top notch. I will not take the engine apart to check the internal parts unless there is a problem. It is larger then the onan, and will require a little modification on the tractor. Any way when started I will post.

Jimmy

#19 chopperfreak2k1 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 22, 2011 - 12:41 PM

thanks brother, lookin forward to it!!

#20 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 22, 2011 - 02:59 PM

Jimmy,

That's very interesting. I knew that these engines could be purchased direct but until now did not know of anyone that has done it. I was concerned that it would get hit by heavy duties and the EPA issue. At the price you paid I have to think these engines represent a great deal.

I am seriously considering doing something similar but putting it in a Case/Ingersoll 448. Any and all pictures and descriptions you might provide will be very helpful. I am really looking forward to following your project!

JN

#21 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 22, 2011 - 04:43 PM

Interesting thread. I haven't seen any of the twin diesels. How do the rpm's line up? The smaller singles go to 3600. Most larger diesels spin slower. It could be an issue with some hydro drives if it is a lot lower. I am also interested in seeing your re power Jimmy.

#22 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 22, 2011 - 05:23 PM

I was going to try one too but when I heard how loud they are... that did it for me, way to noisy , I went with a Kubota 3 cylinder diesel instead. Mine tops out at 3850 rpms but I dialed it back to 3600 for the hydro sake. And it was way cheaper too.$600 with the radiator and airfilter.
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#23 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2011 - 08:38 AM

Skyrydr2,

The noise factor is an interesting point that I have not seen compared anywhere. What information are you basing your statement on? Have you heard the V-twins run yourself or are you working off of someone else's comments? Is the increased noise due to exhaust, fan noise, or the typical mechanical 'knocking' sound inherent with diesel engines?

I can see where fan noise could be a factor since the air cooling the engine must be directed all around the engine instead of through a concentrated radiator. I can also understand that the diesel knock could be more pronounced in an air cooled engine since it is not surrounded by a water jacket. Exhaust would be the least of my worries since a louder system could be redesigned to be quieter. I understand that in the end noise would be the collective sum of all three sources, but I wonder how much greater it really is?

I can also say that the air cooled Onan powerplant in my Ingersoll 448 is no 'whisper quiet' engine either. How much louder would the diesel engine be than what I have now? Unless the noise level was significantly greater than some of the engines being replaced, I still think the v-twin diesel could be a good candidate for repowers.

The water-cooled diesel engines are nice but there is a lot more to consider when transplanting one such as the radiator and plumbing, the much larger flywheel and bell housing design, no power take-off on the front of the engine, etc.

In the end I realize that a lot of the differences between water and air cooled engines is subjective and one would almost have to perform direct comparisons (impossible for most of us to do) to have concrete answers. That said, the more information we can gather from all sources the better informed we can be. For that reason I am really interested in you elaborating on your previous post. I'm not doubting anything you said, I'm simply trying to gather more information on the subject.

Thanks for your input and for raising a potential issue that I had not considered or seen addressed by anyone else here previously.

JN

#24 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2011 - 09:58 AM

I was going to try one too but when I heard how loud they are... that did it for me, way to noisy , I went with a Kubota 3 cylinder diesel instead. Mine tops out at 3850 rpms but I dialed it back to 3600 for the hydro sake. And it was way cheaper too.$600 with the radiator and airfilter.
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You can't go wrong with a good used Kubota that's for sure. The problem is finding one that dosen't need a rebuild.

#25 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2011 - 01:51 PM

You can't go wrong with a good used Kubota that's for sure. The problem is finding one that dosen't need a rebuild.


In general I would agree with that statement. That said, it can be difficult to verify the condition of a used engine (of any make or model) without seeing and hearing it run, and even then just 'bench' running it may not divulge some problems that might show up later after an outlay of money and many hours doing the conversion.

I think that there is something else interesting if you peruse the various conversion projects here. In general I would say that the level of complexity and required fab skills and equipment rises substantially for those projects involving water cooled power plants. Frankly, I am in awe of some of the conversions here and I seriously doubt that I will ever possess the same levels of knowledge, skill, and resources that people like Daniel and some of the other posters exhibit in their projects. :worshippy1:

The fact is it appears that in most cases re-powering with an air cooled engine would be simpler than using a water cooled engine. I know there will be those that disagree with that statement both in general and in reference to specific tractor / engine combinations, but I really believe that in most cases the average member of this forum would be better off going air cooled.

In both cases (air or water cooled) I don't think you can beat diesel power for a serious GT. I am continuing to closely follow these threads to learn as much as I can in anticipation for when the time is right for me to attempt a diesel re-power of my own.

JN

#26 jimmymc2286 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2011 - 02:37 PM

Interesting thread. I haven't seen any of the twin diesels. How do the rpm's line up? The smaller singles go to 3600. Most larger diesels spin slower. It could be an issue with some hydro drives if it is a lot lower. I am also interested in seeing your re power Jimmy.


The engine I have is a 3600 RPM engine. It is a little taller, and a little wider than the Onan it is going to replace. On the JD318 there will have to be a little cutting of the frame. The base of the diesel is wider, but the mod will be easy. When I start the repower I will take a lot of pictures and post them.

As for the noise level, they are louder then the 3cyl. kubota, more diesel knock and the stock exhaust could be quieter. A friend of mine has one of these in a gen. set and it is whisper quite. So I know it can be quieter.

#27 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2011 - 03:04 PM

Boss, I have one in a generator , and its the clank clank clank, diesel noise that convinced me . The engine has good power, but is a real booger to start cold!
Now as far as ptos , most diesels have mounting holes front and rear to run goodies, mine is in backwards and drives the transmission off the crank pulley. This configuration is a pain for sure, if it were a Case, for instance it would much easier because of the simple drive.

Edited by skyrydr2, July 25, 2011 - 03:26 PM.


#28 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 25, 2011 - 03:35 PM

Boss, I have one in a generator , and its the clank clank clank, diesel noise that convinced me . The engine has good power, but is a real booger to start cold!
Now as far as ptos , most diesels have mounting holes front and rear to run goodies, mine is in backwards and drives the transmission off the crank pulley. This configuration is a pain for sure, if it were a Case, for instance it would much easier because of the simple drive.


You bring up another issue for some of us. Cold Starts are a definite requirement for me. Sometimes there are options on these engines for glow plugs or intake heaters.

#29 Boss 448 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 26, 2011 - 09:10 AM

Brian,

Yes, cold starting is definitely a consideration. Do these v-twin diesels have standard (or optional) glow plugs? If not can anyone tell me if it is practical (or even possible) to install glow plugs on one of these engines?

I think that glow plugs and/or block heaters are about the only options for improving cold starting diesels. There is no choke on a diesel and I don't think a fuel enrichment circuit would help. One thing I would not attempt is using starting fluid since I have read many cautions about the damage it can do to a diesel engine.

Personally, I think that the diesel 'rattle' is kind of neat, but like anything I'm sure it could be annoying in extreme. The extra sound deadening of the water jacket on a water-cooled diesel engine would certainly reduce the rattle - apparently by a significant amount. I'm not sure that there is any practical way to reduce the diesel rattle - it is what it is. I believe that most of the noise on my 448 Ingersoll is from the fan noise and exhaust noise. Since I am sure those are present on the diesel also, then the diesel rattle would in fact be additive to the noise level overall. Now I am wondering how much more annoying the sound factor will be. The noise level is subjective so I will be very interested to learn what Jimmy thinks when his project is done.

JN

#30 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 26, 2011 - 10:13 AM

Brian,

Yes, cold starting is definitely a consideration. Do these v-twin diesels have standard (or optional) glow plugs? If not can anyone tell me if it is practical (or even possible) to install glow plugs on one of these engines?

I think that glow plugs and/or block heaters are about the only options for improving cold starting diesels. There is no choke on a diesel and I don't think a fuel enrichment circuit would help. One thing I would not attempt is using starting fluid since I have read many cautions about the damage it can do to a diesel engine.

Personally, I think that the diesel 'rattle' is kind of neat, but like anything I'm sure it could be annoying in extreme. The extra sound deadening of the water jacket on a water-cooled diesel engine would certainly reduce the rattle - apparently by a significant amount. I'm not sure that there is any practical way to reduce the diesel rattle - it is what it is. I believe that most of the noise on my 448 Ingersoll is from the fan noise and exhaust noise. Since I am sure those are present on the diesel also, then the diesel rattle would in fact be additive to the noise level overall. Now I am wondering how much more annoying the sound factor will be. The noise level is subjective so I will be very interested to learn what Jimmy thinks when his project is done.

JN

I think there is an option to have a heater in the intake manifold to heat the incoming air. I did some research on the single cylinder diesels and my impression was that it wasn't a true glow plug but the heater arrangement. If you can get to someone who has experience with the twins, which may not be easy, then they could tell you what's up with cold starts. I know the Yanmar in my JD2320 has glow plugs and starts without issue. I do use a winter fuel conditioner but don't have a block heater. If these engines catch on with GT's then someone will figure it out before long. With the cost of new genuine GT's closing in on 5 figures there is a good case for dropping serious money on a repower for an otherwise solid and servicable machine. I don't find the noise level of the 2320 to be as loud as the X475 I had before. It had the radiator at the back of the engine and the fan noise was as loud as the exhaust. When Jimmy is done his repower hopefully he'll post some videos and perhaps a subjective opinion on the noise level.




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