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I honed the Gard'n Mast'r Jr. engine from 3.010 to 3.020 with a Lisle hone today.


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#1 classic OFFLINE  

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Posted June 06, 2015 - 05:43 PM

I'm really impressed with how well these Lisle hones work. I did a lot of reading about them, so I decided to pick one up and give it a whirl. My engine was previously bored to .010 and needed to be bored again since the bore was worn. I picked up a dial bore gauge, measured my .020 piston skirt and set the gauge up.I used the coarse stones dry to remove the bulk of the material that needed to go until I was about .002 from where I needed to be. I then switched to the fine stones and honed with them dry, also. It was important to clean the stones frequently to keep them clean, and it worked out fine. It takes a lot of measuring and patients to straighten out the bore to take the taper out. I could see how someone could easily mess things up by not being careful. You can see in the pics how bores typically wear. More time is spent at the bottom and top of the cylinder initially, and then you can start working the entire cylinder. I must have taken 300 measurements with the bore gauge during the process. Anyway, the bore came out straight and round after 3+ hours of work. I finally got the valve guide reamer, reamer guide, and bronze valve guide inserts, so installing the inserts is the next step. After that, I'll cut the valve seats with my buddies equipment, and I can assemble the engine.

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#2 pharmer OFFLINE  

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Posted June 06, 2015 - 08:13 PM

Nice. I used to rebuild Wisconsons at a small company I worked for. If it could be refreshed at .010 over the current size size we did it with a hone. Anything more we had a machine shop bore it close and we would finish it with the hone. A lot of measuring is right. We never had a failure when an engine went out the door. I miss those days. Thanks for sharing.
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#3 classic OFFLINE  

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Posted June 06, 2015 - 08:34 PM

This was my first experience with a rigid hone. I've used flex hones many times on rering jobs, but this was all together different. The bore in this block was worn, but there was still .0055 of meat left in the bore at the largest measurement I got before honing. It took a lot of time to get to the correct bore size since measuring and cleaning the stones was a constant. It's amazing how far out bores get with use. I was going to use honing oil like I do with the flex hones, but I read about dry honing and thought that I would try it. I had no problems with chattering, and keeping the stones clean worked well. I took my time and didn't hone to the point of where the cylinder got warm. The stones all looked fine after I finished, and I'm happy with the results. I don't think I would want to have to remove .020 from a bore with on of these hones, but it seems possible if you are careful and patient.

Edited by classic, June 06, 2015 - 11:36 PM.

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#4 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 06, 2015 - 08:50 PM

You have done a beautiful job. I was taught to use cutting fluid for a cleanner job and longer lasting stones. I have used WD40 as my cutting fluid for 45+ years. I was told back then that dry honing would damage the stones and the cylinder(it happens when particles get stuck in the stones). Cutting fluid will wash the particles away. The stuck metal particles will rub the cylinder smooth and hard. That can interfere with ring seating.

I ridge ream first to get the old piston out. I measure the bore with a telescoping inside mic(9 places). If I can take it to +0.010 then I use the hone. Otherwise it gets put aside until I learn how to use my boring bar(3 engines waiting). My last thing is my fine stoned glaze breaker with lots of WD40and then a thorough washing of the entire block and a light oiling of all machined surfaces. The hone works best when it is set up in a drillpress.

Sounds like you are ready for your own valve grinding set. I've seen them pretty cheap on CL. I bought an old Souix valve grinder for $140 that is in nice shape and a Souix seat grinder for $200. They save money and time each time I use them. Going to and from the machine shop takes more time than doing the work.

I want to get a crankshaft polisher to use on my lathe. I've actually got the tool post grinder but I don't think that it is big enough to grind a crank. Please post more pics of your shop. Its nice to see others doing this work. Good Luck, Rick

Edited by boyscout862, June 06, 2015 - 08:52 PM.

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#5 classic OFFLINE  

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Posted June 06, 2015 - 09:25 PM

I was careful to not let the stones get plugged up with metal and stone particles. Quite a bit of metal dust ended up on the deck after I was finished. The dust on the stones fell right off when I took a wire brush to them each time I cleaned them, and I made sure the grit didn't get compacted in the stones and burnish the cylinder walls. I didn't use excessive speed or put a lot of pressure on the hone to make it cut faster, so that's the only reason that I could get away without the cutting oil. Your method is the correct way to go about it boyscout, and I'm going to set myself up with a container and a circulator pump in the near future.
I would like to get a valve grinding set up at some point, but I'll wait for a great deal to come along. For now, the valves can be found cheap enough so I've been buying new ones and it's working out ok. My buddy with the valve and valve seat grinding is only 15 minutes away, but it would still be nice to have my own. My shop consists of my small shed, the back or front deck, or the coffee table in the living room, and the bathroom comes in handy for hot water and a place to scrub the blocks down after honing, LOL! Eventually I'll put a good size garage up so I can work like a human being and not a neanderthal. All in good time I guess. Here's a pic of the stones after I finished honing and cleaned them.

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#6 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted June 06, 2015 - 09:39 PM

Those Lisle hones sure do a nice job, and you do a nice job making them work as well!

 

Ben W.


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#7 classic OFFLINE  

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Posted June 06, 2015 - 09:47 PM

Thanks Ben, it was extremely tedious to get the cylinder straight. If I would have just started honing without constantly measuring, I would have ended up with a tapered cylinder.
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#8 petrj6 ONLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2015 - 06:27 AM

   I will have to look into one of those hones, I messed up an engine block last year trying to hone .006 out of after a friend machined it size to size for me.  live and learn I guess.  that engine looks great.  I have used diesel fuel for lubrication in the past, it is a trick I got from an old machinist at work that seems to work very well.  keeps the stones and bore clean while you are honing.

   I just got the engine block for dads b-10 back from the shop yesterday and I thought the guy took good care of me.  he checked the bore and honed it then did both valve seats and the exhaust valve, when he checked the intake it was bent so I need to replace that.  then cleaned the block and got it ready for rebuild all for $60.  can really beat that.

                                   Pete


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#9 classic OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2015 - 10:06 AM

Good to hear you got the block back Pete, and 60 bucks was a good deal. Sometimes even new valves can be bent or need to be refaced right out of the box. I haven't had that problem yet,but check the new valve to be on the safe side. I waited until I could find one of those hones to come up for sale new, but cheaper than they normally sell for. I just want to be able to do the work that I need to do myself. Today I'm installing the valve guide inserts. I reamed out the exhaust valve guide last night and it didn't take long.

#10 lrhredjb OFFLINE  

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Posted June 21, 2015 - 07:58 AM

Good to hear you got the block back Pete, and 60 bucks was a good deal. Sometimes even new valves can be bent or need to be refaced right out of the box. I haven't had that problem yet,but check the new valve to be on the safe side. I waited until I could find one of those hones to come up for sale new, but cheaper than they normally sell for. I just want to be able to do the work that I need to do myself. Today I'm installing the valve guide inserts. I reamed out the exhaust valve guide last night and it didn't take long.

Interesting thread, btw how do you check valves to verify straightness.


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#11 classic OFFLINE  

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Posted June 21, 2015 - 10:59 AM

The new valves should be chucked in a valve grinding machine to make sure they are straight and ground correctly. My buddy has an old Black and Decker valve grinding set up, and he had to true up some of the new valves that he bought for an old Hemi he was building. I've heard of other people having issues with new valves, but most of the time the factory grind is fine.
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#12 lrhredjb OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 08:00 AM

Classic, thanks for the info about the valves. I forgot to ask you how did you power the Lisle hone you used? It looks like a useful tool.



#13 classic OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2015 - 09:28 AM

I used a hand held 1/2" drill to power the hone and I didn't have any problems at all.




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