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Powering a Johnson Loader with HT20D

johnson loader ht20d large frame

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#1 whitefishblues OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2015 - 06:56 PM

Hi all.

 

I put a Johnson Workhorse loader on my HT20D.  It doesn't have room to run a belt out to the side like you do on the gas powered large frames.  Using the pictures from Bob's Lawn & Garden Tractors' post called "HT20D now has a backhoe and loader" (and with some helpful advice from Bob...thank you!) I mounted the pump under the tractor and connected it to the PTO with a Universal Joint.  

 

(I'll insert here, by the way, that I got the 1" 15 spline yokes from drivetrainamerica.com, Weasler L6 series, part number 301-0600.  I came across a thread a while back where someone said they were having trouble finding a yoke for a large frame Bolens PTO.  These fit nicely.)

 

Okay, so I got it mounted and it worked.  I used the loader to push some brush into a burn pile and after a short time the pump shaft broke.  I figured I must have run over a branch that popped up and hit it.  So I ordered a new pump and installed it.  My next task was hauling some sawdust around.  I was driving on concrete into the pile of sawdust.  I don't think I ran into anything this time, but the shaft broke again.  So I'm thinking there is a flaw in this setup.  As I look at it, there really isn't much give other than the universal joint.  Maybe the front axle transmits a jolt to the PTO shaft and it's enough to cause a problem???  I'm thinking of swapping it all out for something like a Lovejoy coupling.  

 

Any ideas?  Has anyone else had this kind of trouble?  

 

Here's a picture of the setup.  I realize the shaft is at an angle, but that's just because it broke and the broken end is resting on a lip on the pump.  It was straight before it broke, and when engaged it didn't wobble or vibrate, at least that I could tell.

 

Thanks for any help!

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#2 Chopperhed OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2015 - 07:13 PM

It has to be a mis-alignment or over powering/torquing issue. Assuming the U-joint and shafts are rated for the power, and since I cant see the other end of the connection, I can't really offer a definite opinion. However, it's been my experience that single u-joints in a setup can bind up and cause problems. A second U-joint (installed in phase) or a Lovejoy coupling might be in order. Most direct drive pumps are built to take a direct drive, they can't handle side loads at all.


Edited by Chopperhed, June 04, 2015 - 07:19 PM.

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#3 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2015 - 07:13 PM

From the photo it looks to me like you have the pump mounted in a bind in realation to the PTO drive.  The shaft from the PTO joint is at an angle down toward the pump but the pump is mounted to a stationary angle pointed straight forward.  I would look that set up over real close as I think you have a an alignment problem.  You may need another U-Joint at the pump or a flex coupleing may be better.  Just my observation and opinion.  Good luck on solving your delima.


Edited by chieffan, June 04, 2015 - 07:14 PM.

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#4 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2015 - 07:15 PM

Looks like it's awfully short, and being a one piece shaft, it's not allowing for any movement.

 

I think I'd mount the pump farther back, and use a 2 piece PTO shaft with 2 U-joints so that it has room to telescope/move when you are operating it.

 

The pump on my Forklift is mounted on a sub-frame, but it's farther to the rear and has a telescoping PTO shaft.  It's run like that for a who knows how many hours w/o a problem.


Edited by OldBuzzard, June 04, 2015 - 07:17 PM.

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#5 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2015 - 08:18 PM

Raise the pump Up and level it with the PTO shaft if your not going to use 2 U-Joints or 1 U joint and a Flex coupler.Only having 1 U-Joint will bind up the shaft and snap something if the shafts are not 100% level to one another.

 

U joints work in Pairs.1 will bend down and 1 will bend up.

 

 

Here this might help figure out driveline angles if you need it.

https://www.drivelin...angle-problems/


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#6 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2015 - 09:54 PM

From the photo it looks to me like you have the pump mounted in a bind in realation to the PTO drive. 

 

If your photo is not playing games with my eyes I have to agree with the above. Your shafts still need to be on the same plane or same angle even when a universal joint is used. Your pump shaft is running parallel with the tractor frame and the U-joint is approaching the pump at an angle. As has been said, one U-joint may not eliminate all binding. I mounted my pump higher and used a Love-joy coupler and have had no problems. 


Edited by Cvans, June 04, 2015 - 09:55 PM.

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#7 whitefishblues OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2015 - 02:56 AM

The picture does show it at an angle now, but what you see is actually the broken pump shaft that is still attached to the yoke but no longer supported by the pump.  So it fell.  But the point is well taken...I have a better understanding now of how a universal joint should work.  It makes total sense (now!) that you would need two universal joints for it to offer the flexibility it needs.  

 

It's not very easy to see in the picture but there is a cross-member for the loader frame pretty close behind where I mounted the pump.  So I don't have room to take it back further unless I drop it some, and I don't want it any closer to the ground than it already is.  It sounds like the Lovejoy-type coupling might be the solution.  Thanks to all for the help!  


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#8 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2015 - 04:08 AM

It has to have 2 crosses to work one has "0" miss alignment abilities and if it is off will do just what it has done, break the weaker shaft. Never use a love-Joy and u joint in the same shaft, almost instant failure will occur at the love-Joy coupler.
They have what looks like the letter H that is used to create a virtual constant velocity joint, this would work perfectly for your application.
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#9 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2015 - 07:31 AM

They have what looks like the letter H that is used to create a virtual constant velocity joint, this would work perfectly for your application.

My thoughts exactly skyrydr2.  Like a CV joint in a vehicle.


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#10 Rainier OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2015 - 09:47 AM

I don't see a slip shaft on there. The angle does not look that bad. If there was a slip shaft on there that may be all you need to give it some room to move. Thus stop things from breaking. I'm not sure if you have enough length to get one to fit.
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#11 whitefishblues OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2015 - 11:20 AM

skyrydr2...my thought was actually to take the U joint out completely, put a 15 spline coupler on the PTO shaft, attach a lovejoy on the end of that, and have a lovejoy on the pump shaft.  Would that not work?  Do you have a link to an example of the "letter H" type coupler?

 

Ranier...The yoke that is attached to the PTO shaft slides on and is not held in place.  It is free to move back and forth, at least some, on the PTO shaft.  Would that accomplish the same thing as a slip shaft?

 

Thanks for the responses.


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#12 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2015 - 02:57 PM

Went out and took a couple photos of mine. Bolens GT2000 pump installation. I think this is what WFB is talking about. I installed this quite a few years ago and it's had a real workout with no problems. The first photo shows the splined adapter on the mid PTO shaft. The second shows the lovejoy between the adapter and the pump shaft with the pump on the other side of the mounting bracket. 

Hope this helps.

 

 

IMG_0130.JPG

IMG_0129.JPG


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#13 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2015 - 02:59 PM

In case your wondering about the blue tie rod, it is a piece of chrome moly tube that just slips over the original tie rod for added strength when the loader is full. May not be necessary but it made me feel better as the original rod is pretty small diameter. 


Edited by Cvans, June 05, 2015 - 03:03 PM.

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