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Question on Hydraulics


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#1 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 10:42 AM

The Fords have a Front hydraulic kit to add a second valve & cylinder. They want you to hook it in to a power beyond port on the existing valve. But, the adapter for that is NLA and very hard to find. Here's a pic of the manual page.

Front Hydraulic kit.JPG

 

The valve at the top left is existing. The return (9,13,14) for the 'new' valve goes to the existing tee in the return line. Could I not just put a tee (fitting just above 14) in the line feeding the existing valve and use that to feed the 'new' valve? I happen to have another valve and cylinder with actuating handle to make this happen.

2015-05-27 10.19.36.jpg   

 

Here's what is existing on the tractor.

2015-05-27 10.20.15.jpg

 

Just throwing this out as I have the Ford apart right now for some needed fixing. This would be a lot easier to do now.



#2 tater195 ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 11:01 AM

14 should be the return it looks like the supply side comes from 16/17 on the existing valve. I have one with a 2 valve setup. I can chase it out tonight. Kinda tight in there without pulling the fender pan, so I cant promise any pics

 

17 looks like some kind of flow control/ pressure relief, that may or may not be on the original valve. It could have a plug where 16 threads in, if not, you will have to tee into the line marked "to hydro" on the drawing


Edited by tater195, May 27, 2015 - 11:10 AM.

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#3 tater195 ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 11:16 AM

This is the valve for the 195. Might be easier to find.

 

$_35.JPG


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#4 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 11:26 AM

Kenny, all you need to do is send me that extra valve and I can make the PB fitting into the correct one for power beyond. But I need the valve to get it all fitted correctly. Then I will have all the dims and can make another for anyone else that may need one in the future.
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#5 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 12:48 PM

14 should be the return it looks like the supply side comes from 16/17 on the existing valve. I have one with a 2 valve setup. I can chase it out tonight. Kinda tight in there without pulling the fender pan, so I cant promise any pics

 

17 looks like some kind of flow control/ pressure relief, that may or may not be on the original valve. It could have a plug where 16 threads in, if not, you will have to tee into the line marked "to hydro" on the drawing

17 is the 'Power Beyond' fitting.

 

Kenny, all you need to do is send me that extra valve and I can make the PB fitting into the correct one for power beyond. But I need the valve to get it all fitted correctly. Then I will have all the dims and can make another for anyone else that may need one in the future.

 That would be great, but then I would have this tractor scattered across the yard until I got the parts back, Keith.

My question is simple. I will not be using both valves at the same time, so why can't I just tee into the feed to the existing valve for the second one?


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#6 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 12:49 PM

This is the valve for the 195. Might be easier to find.

 

$_35.JPG

I already have 4 extra valves and 3 cylinders. Why buy more?


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#7 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 01:10 PM

No can do, but you could go from the return of the original, and feed it to the in port on the second valve. BUT!!! If the first valve is not pressure rated on the return side..... Caploowy, oil everywhere! And you will have a broken useless valve . it won't take me but an hour to do, this is what stinks....
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#8 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 01:29 PM

No can do, but you could go from the return of the original, and feed it to the in port on the second valve. BUT!!! If the first valve is not pressure rated on the return side..... Caploowy, oil everywhere! And you will have a broken useless valve . it won't take me but an hour to do, this is what stinks....

Okay, here is a drawing of what I am asking. The first pic is what it has now. Second is what I want to do.

Front Hydraulic lines #1.JPG

 

Front Hydraulic lines #2.JPG

 

Why will this not work?



#9 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 01:44 PM

Keith, I think I just figured out what you are saying. These are open center valves, meaning pressure is on both sides when the engine is running. What if I take the return for the first valve to the feed for the second, then run a new return line back? Wouldn't that be the same?

Front Hydraulic lines #3.JPG



#10 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 03:28 PM

The reason that you do not want to plumb a power beyond. Capable Valve that way is they are not designed to have high pressure build up in the low pressure circuit of the valve. It will physically ruin it. This is why it has "power beyond "and needs the special fitting to alter the internal porting so high pressures flow though with out exposing the low side to system pressures.
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#11 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 05:58 PM

Here's the valve I need to add and put the pressure to first to get away from the "Power Beyond' type valve.2015-05-27 16.05.48.jpg

 

And these are for Keith to explain the flaring tool I have.

2015-05-27 16.00.05.jpg     2015-05-27 16.01.15.jpg

2015-05-27 16.00.40.jpg

 

It will do from 3/16" to 3/4" tube. Has a different type bevel to flare with than most.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#12 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 06:06 PM

That is a standard Flare tool with a burnisher, the lump sticking out of the side of the cone. It will only do single flares. Most flaired hydraulic lines i have seen (not many) have double flares.


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#13 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 06:17 PM

I have another that will do double flares. Just trying to figure out this one.



#14 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 06:35 PM

 OK Kenny! That is EXACTLY the correct tool for hydraulic lines !! You lucky dog ,you !! That is perfect to do what you need to do. It is designed to roll over the flare nice and easy , you just need to play with it to figure out the amount of tube you need to stick out for a proper flare diameter. Only brake lines have double flares ,water ,gas, a/c all use single flare. Hydraulic lines use a backing sleeve to ensure a tight seal.

 That valve looks to have 2 jic and 2 female pipe swivel fittings, hose ends with pipe thread are ok, but jic is better if possible .


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#15 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2015 - 07:44 PM

 OK Kenny! That is EXACTLY the correct tool for hydraulic lines !! You lucky dog ,you !! That is perfect to do what you need to do. It is designed to roll over the flare nice and easy , you just need to play with it to figure out the amount of tube you need to stick out for a proper flare diameter. Only brake lines have double flares ,water ,gas, a/c all use single flare. Hydraulic lines use a backing sleeve to ensure a tight seal.

 That valve looks to have 2 jic and 2 female pipe swivel fittings, hose ends with pipe thread are ok, but jic is better if possible .

I changed the 2 FP swivel fittings on this valve, I have another like it with JIC fittings. Just got to see if I have enough hose made up to make it work.






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