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Engine won't start

briggs & srtatton

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#1 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 08:59 AM

Hi,

 

I have a Briggs 14.5 HP engine, that was starting OK, but now today it will not turn over.

 

I have eleminated many variables, so I am trying to jump the the starter by running jumper

cables from a V6 truck engine to the starter.  The starter seems like it is trying to turn over

but it is going very slowly. So as it stands does not seem like the starter is spinning fast enough

to engage the flywheel. I also have eliminated  many switches as variables as well. So the configuration

of say last week when it did start is the same as todays.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks,

 

 

 


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#2 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 09:06 AM

Pull the spark plug and see if it will turn over. If this has the solenoid on the bottom of the carb, it may have failed and loaded the engine with gas! I have had numerous issues with that solenoid doing that, including losing 2 engines due the gas in the oil.


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#3 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 09:16 AM

Hello thanks for your reply and yes it has the molex plastic connector that plugs in underneath the carb. I have that wire ( really 2 wires ) running to ground as it always has been and the other running back to the battery. I will try your suggestion when I get home from work.  Also it has another solenoid mounted almost underneath the seat. This one is more conventional looking type, whereas the one under the carb is just a plastic molex.



#4 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 09:22 AM

Use the jumper cables, one red on plus side of battery in tractor ( if you jump off the truck, then you have to use both red and black and ground the black to tractor motor somewhere or just connect to tractor neg side.), then other end directly to large red cable on the starter and see how well it spins over. That will do a quick test on starter condition by bypassing all the circuits/solenoid/safeties.

Make sure you check oil level and pull plug though as suggested to make sure it's not full of gas.


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#5 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 09:27 AM

That solenoid is supposed to shut off fuel to stop the engine and keep it from flooding the crankcase. When they fail, then gas gets into the cylinder and migrates into the crankcase. Unhooking the wires will not fix it, they ground the spark to stop the engine. And they are not cheap to replace.


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#6 grattone ONLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 03:41 PM

If the previous suggestions don't help. Check the gap for the valves, I have had 3 Briggs 14.5 HP that had to be adjusted. Acts like the battery is weak or starter is bad.

Good luck

Gratton


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#7 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 05:33 PM

I tried the following. The red to the truck + side of battery the neg. to the negative of the battery. Then the other red to the starter of the tractor and the negative to the tractor frame. This has worked well just a few days ago. But what is happeing is it seems like good

spark at the starter but the flywheel barely turns. Just say last week the same config would yield a rapidly spinning flywheel. It did rain the other night - wondering if water got into something. I have gapped the valve before and I know this can be a cause - I just find it hard to believe in 3 days time the valve is out of adjustement. The only other thing I did was to change the v - belt for the mower deck

just yesterday.

 

Also I took out the spark plug and the flywheel still turned - just not fast enough.


Edited by BrokenTractor, May 21, 2015 - 07:42 PM.


#8 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 08:14 PM

That solenoid is supposed to shut off fuel to stop the engine and keep it from flooding the crankcase. When they fail, then gas gets into the cylinder and migrates into the crankcase. Unhooking the wires will not fix it, they ground the spark to stop the engine. And they are not cheap to replace.

Hi Kenny P. I am replying down here cuz I don't know how to reply where you typed above. But anyways I am well aware of that molex and the fact is the engine will not start without it plugged in and the hot going to the battery and the ground going to the engine. I have that plugged in before I try to jump start the starter.


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#9 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 08:23 PM

My 14HP Vanguard single was that way, real slow to crank with jumper cables direct from my truck's batt to the starter itself, this was a machine that has sat a while. Usually I get the symptoms you describe, and I wind up having to replace the starter since the one I have is worn out. Like always though I went thru the motions on this one and pulled the starter apart expecting to find all kinds of rust dust, brushes that are "shot", and burnt smell /but this one looked like a brand new starter inside. I put it back together as I found it with a smear of grease in the bushings and it works so much better since I did that.


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#10 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 09:16 PM

Pull the spark plug and see if it will turn over. If this has the solenoid on the bottom of the carb, it may have failed and loaded the engine with gas! I have had numerous issues with that solenoid doing that, including losing 2 engines due the gas in the oil.

Pull the spark plug  <----- Kenny said this.

 

Kenny I misread what you said and only pulled out the spark plug wire. I will try the spark plug on Friday. I am guessing if the flywheel spins rapidly with the spark plug out then that means a "too much compression issue" with the spark plug in?.


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#11 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted May 21, 2015 - 09:19 PM

My 14HP Vanguard single was that way, real slow to crank with jumper cables direct from my truck's batt to the starter itself, this was a machine that has sat a while. Usually I get the symptoms you describe, and I wind up having to replace the starter since the one I have is worn out. Like always though I went thru the motions on this one and pulled the starter apart expecting to find all kinds of rust dust, brushes that are "shot", and burnt smell /but this one looked like a brand new starter inside. I put it back together as I found it with a smear of grease in the bushings and it works so much better since I did that.

Dodge Trucker thanks for the info here.



#12 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted May 22, 2015 - 05:26 AM

Pull the spark plug  <----- Kenny said this.

 

Kenny I misread what you said and only pulled out the spark plug wire. I will try the spark plug on Friday. I am guessing if the flywheel spins rapidly with the spark plug out then that means a "too much compression issue" with the spark plug in?.

If it is full of gas, pulling the plug will blow it out! Have you checked the oil level? If over full, you have gas in it.



#13 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted May 22, 2015 - 07:48 AM

Yes, if cylinder is full of gas, you will have 'hydrolock" you basically can't compress liquids so pulling plug will alleviate that.

 

Did this start after you changed the mower belt? If so, maybe some binding on crank causing slow spinning?

 

Dodge may be on the right track though, starter may need replaced.



#14 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted May 22, 2015 - 09:12 AM

Hi Dodge and Tahoe,

 

I am going to work on the issue today, but I think if you are going to ever jump a  starter say in the future it is best to keep the jumper cables away from the starter itself. Maybe run a short 8 guage wire ( say 2 feet long ) off the starter  and then use the end of this to do the jumping. Seems to me to much heat gets generated and to many sparks fly near the starter when using a direct "touching the starter with the battery cable" method.

 

Anyone care to comment on this?

 

Thanks,

JP



#15 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted May 22, 2015 - 09:41 AM

broken, been doing it this way for what seems like  forever, actually you get less heat buildup going direct, less connections so less chance for resistance within the electrical system. With your jumper idea there is an additional connection, so there is more chance of a bad connection, which means electrical resistance and therefore heat buildup.

 

Just put the "+" to the cable lug  on the starter 1st and touch the "-" to the engine block (base plate "foot" where mounting bolts thread in usually works great) so any arc that may happen, does so somewhere besides at the starter motor.  though depending on how the jaws on your jumper are designed, it may be clumbsy to get at the lug you need to be at...

 

especially if you have newer cables with the "extensions" for side post batteries you should be able to see what you need to see what you need to just by touching the "-" to the block or the starer housing, you should not have to actually "clamp" the cables to the machine.

As long as the starter is bolted to the engine, which is also metal, the starter should ground itself thru its mounting bolts and mounting "feet" unless it's rusty like ones that have been stored outside always get...

which brings up another point; generally in electrical work (cars/trucks too, same 12V DC power source)  ground issues cause alot more electrical ills than most people realize. If there is rust on those bolts or the mounting feet, you have resistance on your ground side. Cables straight to the starter does eliminate/bypass that possibility by isolating "just the starter" from the rest of the electrical system. Paint can also be a great insulator....

 

If your starter motor gets hot, then either it has internal issues (possibly just dry bushings or worn out bushings that cause the armature to rub on the field coils inside the starter) or you are grinding on it too long. Starer motors are "intermittent duty"  If you grind on them for an extended period like on an engine that won't start or starts with difficulty then your starter is not long for this world anyway.


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